'MSbP, Lost Mothers 3'

[kalex]

A new thread for Bunglie, Cheeseball, Spudbrain and Postsue.

With my love and best wishes to them all.

God I sound like a greeting card

Hi Bunglie, will carry on seeing if I can find the relevant answer anywhere. In answer to Edam's question, the OSS are the regulatory arm of the Law Society, so not fully independent, tho if you are not satisfied with their decision you can appeal within a certain time limit to the Legal Services Ombudsman, who is independent. Good news tho that you do have an avenue to get hold of your papers.

still not got an answer on wardship
but para 11 of annex 12 may help - this states

11. Would the client have grounds for making a complaint if I lost a file, or destroyed it without the client's consent?

"the view of the standards and guidance comittee is that the storing of deeds and other legal documents for clients is a professional service. The loss or destruction of such documents could, therefore, give rise to an investigation by the Solicitors Complaints Bureau on the basis of inadequate professional services."

IIRC on your old thread wasn't there some issue as to whether or not the old solicitors had provided you with copies/visited your home?

MTS, that reference to the Solicitor's Complaints Bureau means they haven't updated this guidance for some time, doesn't it? OSS replaced SCB some years ago, I think?

oops edam - what i typed out was from the 1996 Guide to Professional Conduct for solicitors not the 2003 update (which is on the law society website) the 2003 wording is the same, save for updating the reference to SCB. thanx for pointing that out!

Hey, MTS, wasn't trying to make you blush! Was just thinking that Law Soc so rubbish guidance is out of date.

Thanks for the info, but I am still not sure what it all means....it is 'legalise' to me

Is there ANY info on Wardship files? This would be in a books of guidlines pre 1990-91 as that was when they STOPPED making people/children Wards of the Court, so wouldn't any rgulations be in guidlines when there were WARDS of Court files? My DD must be one of the very last Wards of the court, and that ended for her in 1991(February) and I remember being told that the new childcare laws of 1989 (I think!!) came into force in October 1991 (Well some mew childcare law came into force in October 1991)????

What I need is some definitive guidlines that would have been given to solicitors in Feb 1991 regarding the Storage and Destruction of WARDSHIP files? Any additional info relating to file destruction and storage rlating to my personal property would be a bonus!?

I don't think I can have ever said that thesolicitor came to my home, as she never did, however she states that she gave me a box with my personal items in it and I am supposed to have said I was going to store them in my loft/attic, which would have been very difficult as I lived in a groundfloor flat and did not have an attic!

I do have copies of many reports and letters, including affadavits, however I only have 'the other sides' ones as they were sent to me to comment on. I have very few of 'Our sides' reports etc, and it is these I need. I have also not told the solicitor 'what' reports I have got, as I thought they may think that I had them all, which I know I don't, and they would not try so hard to reconstruct the file. I am missing some quite important ones, but I DO have a copy of Sir Roy Meadow's report (well one of them, he wrote 2) So he (Meadow's) might have shredded all his papers ( as he says) but my copy of his report is intact for all to see, showing that he did not even speak to me or my doctors! I bet they wish that was one I did not have

However, sorry gone off at a tangent (again), and thanks for your help it is really, very much appreciated I do need some regulations that refer specifically to Wardship papers.

Does this make sense or help in anyway??

I can not thank you enough, I have looked but I do need some help and guidance as to where to look....I feel as if I only ever ask you for things and your help but I do not 'give' anything back, so it must seem as if I am being selfish and using you all, but being honest I do not know what I would do if it were not for you all, I think given up a long time ago!

THANK YOU

Love Bunglie XX

Hi Bunglie. Thanks for the further info. Sorry I have not been able to dig up anything relevant and that I have been a typical lawyer (ducking the question and explaining what I did have to say unclearly at that What I was trying to say earlier is that the solicitors' firm were in the wrong, sufficient for you to make a complaint against them, if they destroyed your file without getting your permission first. I appreciate it is not anything as strong as something specifically relating to wardship, but might still be useful ammunition. I'll see if I can find any solicitors conduct rules in force in 1990 on the web or in Liverpool Central Library. What I found would have been in force in 1996.

beety, IIRC SofiaAmes is a founder member of the Ben & Jerry's fan club...but you are dead right, we didn't get any

Now come on girls......there is always NEXT time, but what makes you think I would have Sofia in my home??

She's a CONSERVATIVE.....ooh I'm not certain that I could have one of those people ....You will have to wait and see if you are correct, And if it were Sofia, do you think I would have any Ben and Jerries left if it were her?

And I DO still have some left for today! So.....are you right?

Don't worry though 'girls' I shall make certain that I have a tub of that nice cheap ice cream waiting for you, the one they put anti-freeze in, would that be OK?

Lots of love Bunglie XXX

I've told you before, young lady, Green and Black's is the only way to go. Pah! to your Ben & Jerry's!

BUT...We can't get Green and Blacks....so we have to make do with second best.....((sob)!
But then that has been the story of my lfe.....only to be told today that my ice-ream is substandard and not the 'best'

OKAY....Why is Green and Blacks so good? And, why Vanilla, that's such a 'common' flavour,

Last night I discovered 'Cookie Dough' Flavour and that was nice........

Perhaps my 'house guest' will have to leave 'early' just incase she eats it all Hmmm!

Jealousy will get you know where 'girls'.....who knows it COULD even be 'Wobblyknicks' who is here????

Because they use organic chocolate, I think... anyway, don't know why but it just is the best ice-cream ever.

Now! Now! 'Girls' !
I have had to 'throw' my weekend guest out.....she was eating just too much Ben and Jerries.....However I still have a couple of jam doughnuts!! Heee Heee, I bet she thought they were all gone. It was really nice to have someone here to 'natter' too and share some B & J's with....So I shall make certain Janh and Beety and anyone else......that I have some B & J's in the freezer. However, IF you want Green and Black's organic you will have to bring your own as I can't seem to get it here!!

To my Mner House guest, it was lovely having you and I hope that you will come again?

I do have one question though, you brought the 'sunshine' with you and now that you have gone it is pouring with rain.....you could have left the nice weather even if you did not leave the B & J's!

A 'Deli' Beety!......I don't think that we have one of those 'online' do we? I do ALL my shopping online as it is the only way I can get a 'nice young man' in my home, and one who carries the shopping at that! If I went to a 'deli' or a health food shop I would have to carry it home....no! no! So you see that I am limited to buying 'online' and so if Green and Blacks are so 'fussy' that they are not good enough to be delivered by a 'nice young man' I am afraid I shall have to stick to 'second best'....and enjoy every spoonful! (It also goes well with toffee cake with fudge icing).
I can see that in 'November' if you can manage a visit then, I shall have to stock up, just so you don't get jealous and we can then compare 'notes' on the various speciality ice-creams and desserts....would that be OK ?

M27 and Edam, back to the serious stuff!

Do you have a web reference for me so I can start to read about the regulations relating to the storage of Wardship papers? Or are they in some kind of booklet that I can get?

There must be something somewhere...but where is the question? Because I am sure that I would not have been told this if it were not the case and neither would the other firms have kept their papers if they only had to keep them for 6 years....which is what the woman from the Law Society, Office for the Supervision of Solicitors said. She said she had checked it with her superiors and they had heard of no such 'special regulations'.
I asked her who her supervisor was and she said, "I have several" I tried to get a name, but to no avail. When I asked about who I complained to because they were not being particularly helpful she said "I know I am telling you things you don't want to hear but that is the way things go!" I asked who I could complain to, she told me the Ombudsman, so I asked for his name and address. She refused to give it to me yet, saying that 'when they have completed my dispute with the solicitors, if I was still unhappy I would then, and only then be sent details of the Ombudsman' However she wants me to fax her on Mon. or Tue. something that 'backs up my claim that the solicitors acted improperly' and they are not interested in my dispute over them destroying my personal property, as I have already said, she stated 'I was out of time' and there was no proof that they had done this, so it was my word against theirs....I offered to write an affidavit to the effect that what I was saying was true, but she still said that this was not their buisness and "hard-luck" because if they were there they had been destroyed and could not be brought back!

As usual I have gone on....and on.... but as I said If you do have any reference for a web page so I could start to look (now my B & J's scoffer has gone home!), I would be really greatful???

Thank goodness Mumsnet has some legal people as members or I don't know what I would have done.
Love, Bunglie XX

bunglie, have to confess that i still haven't got anywhere with anything specifically relating to wardship . am still trawling and racking my brains. my gut feeling, is that, as there could be applications to the Court during the currency of the wardship, say if someone had breached the conditions/the terms needed to be changed, then the papers relating to the wardship should be kept until the wardship ended. unfortunately i have not found anything so far to support this i will keep trying to dig.

M27

THANK YOU

Bunglie XX

Hmm, have you all been talking about me? I think I ate too much b&j this weekend...i'm lactose intollerant and get a tummy ache if I have more than a very small bit.

Talking about you Sofia........

Sorry about the tummy ache....perhaps you should try this Green and Blacks Organic......

Now are you toying with us Sofia.....Have you been somewhere you need to confess.....

Do you want everyone to think that it was YOU who was my very well behaved house guest for the weekend, the one it was a pleasure to have, the one who can come again ....

The one who made me wake up in the middle of the night (last night) to go a check the freezer, ate the rest of the doughnuts, followed by the B & J's and then half a dozen ice-pops to be found lying on my bed groaning this morning "Uhg! I feel sick" surrounded by empty pots, plates and evidence of a midnight feast......

Excuse me....do you think I could have a bit of sympathy....groan....groan....(I have a hosp. appt in about an hour, just a check up, but need to look healthy, not as if I emptied the contents of my freezer in one night!)

I hope your tummy is better now Sofia....but I am sure it is not my fault.....I went fishing!!

UHG! Still groaning here.....more sympathy please?

Calling all legal people..........

H-E-L-P

What 'heading' do you suggest that I search under, (google) for finding out about Archiving and saving Wardship papers....OR, anyone apart from the Law Society, who I can phone and ask them. But, I am not even sure how to narrow down my search parameters, so I don't get so many 'hits'.

Sainsbury's stock Green and Blacks. Bought it from there myself. And they deliver.
Bunglie have you thought about simply telling your son that you never hurt either of them, fought to keep them and have always loved them, but a misdiagnosis of your illness led to them being taken away? Don't you think that might be enough truth fot the moment? It's all true, though obviously there is more, but it might help your children's bewilderment. As you say, your son wants to know more.

Thanks Aloha...

Sainsbury's don't deliver here..., too far in the sticks!

I have already told my ds that, but I think it would be helpful if he heard it from someone else, as he is being told that I am telling him lies and it is not true!
I think all I can do at the moment is keep 'plodding away', keep as much contact going as I can, without him feeling 'smothered' and try and build up a relationship with him. So he gets to know me and then when he realises everything it will be easier for him to believe because we have hopefully built up a relationship and met just to have 'fun' a meal or a day out etc.
I wish the AP's would 'give him their blessing' or permission to have contact with me, because otherwise I am 'asking' him to be deceitful, because this will have to be done without the AP's knowing, for his sake if for no other reason because they will not allow contact between us, and I know he is over 18, so it is his decission but let's be honest he must have developed some loyalty to them over the years, (well to the 'af' at least) and it is like asking him to choose, something I have never wanted to do, nor do I think it is a healthy situation to put him or his sister in.
If only they would let us meet, let us get to know each other ....I could go on...and on! but they are obviously afraid of something....is it me? Maybe they think they are doing the right thing protecting him from me? Maybe they have something to hide? Maybe they are just worried about 'the truth' and realise that he was possibly put up for adoption by 'default' and can not see themselves as I do, and that is innocent parties who adopted two children, not realising the circumstances does not make them wrong, or mean they have done anything wrong. So why are they so anti me? Why will they be so derrogatory about me? what have they got to hide because that is what I am starting to think, otherwise you would think that they would be pleased for me to approach them, before my ds about talking to him etc. I have been open and honest with them in the past, and that honesty has been repaid by mistrust and lies....I wish I knew why?
I am not certain what is reasonable in the way of contact, without going OTT. A txt. message once a weak or a phonecall, even if it is just to his voicemail, and a letter every couple of weeks....is that reasonable...too much....too little? I just don't know.

I must however find something to show that the solicitor had no right to destroy the files, when I first contacted them they admitted they should not have been destroyed, but I can not find the legal bit I need to show this as the Law Society has now said they acted quite properly and that there are NO special rquirements for Wardship files....there must be though or the other firms involved would not have kept them? Oh well back to 'google'!!