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'MSbP, Lost Mothers 3'

356 replies

kalex · 22/07/2004 20:24

A new thread for Bunglie, Cheeseball, Spudbrain and Postsue.

With my love and best wishes to them all.

God I sound like a greeting card

OP posts:
Beetroot · 08/09/2004 16:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Bunglie · 08/09/2004 16:20

I have heard from Cheesy and Spuddy, they both say "Hello", but neither have been able to post recently. They sounded happy and well on the telephone and were pleasd that you had not forgotten them! As if we could!

How are you doing IKNT? It's just nice to have news to know that you are Okay and that if there is anything you need/want that we can do that you let us know.

Postsue....Awe! I hope the migrain is better.... How are you? How is 'innocenteyes'? Did you get the piccy's of the rally I emailed you?

Now- Does anyone want/need anything? if it is just a good moan, then moan away......

I hope to have some news for you all after the weekend, but I am having difficulty getting hold of my ds at the moment, He is still not answering text messages or phonecalls, (5 rings, then call diverted followed by his voice mail). I sent him the letter, but no reply. I guess it is a lot for someone to take in and I need to be patient. I often wonder 'How they must feel' knowing that they were taken from me, but not knowing the truth. The truth could therefore be a bit devastating to their world and hard to accept. Without contact, and the AP's have broken contact, I do not know what to think. What I do know is that it is painful and I find myself crying for no reason, except I want to 'talk' to my children and be part of their lives.

edam · 08/09/2004 16:26

Oh Bunglie, that is so sad, and I'm very, very sorry about it. I just wish the aps would do the decent thing and admit that they were misled and have unwittingly misled the children in turn. Is that so hard for them to do?

soapbox · 08/09/2004 16:41

Awww Bunglie - I do feel for you - really I do. When I think of the happy time you ahd with both of them the last time you saw them, what possible good can the AP's severing contact now do for anyone caught up in this sorry mess?

Really, it is time that the AP's started to see sense. I am a great believer that in time 'the truth will out' and they will really have to work very hard to repair their relationship with your children. They have been lied to, emotionally abused and God knows what else in their short lives. It has to stop.

Just take it slowly Bunglie - you will get there. I cna only imagine how painful it must be for your children also .

Bunglie · 08/09/2004 21:05

My DS has JUST telephoned me...it is a long story as to why he has not been in contact and I am too excited to tell you now.....

He said I have done nothing to upset him.

He DOES want to see me, but is very busy at work at the moment, and he has NO PROBLEM seeing me on his own.

The conversation was only about 10 minutes, but he has made me the happiest 'Mum' in the world tonight!

He had been away on holiday and he had been told some 'stuff' by the AP's that I was not going to ask him about and make him feel more awkward, but he said he is very aware of the AP's attitude towards me and that has made it difficult for him.

He knew nothing of some things I told him, so rather than put him in the middle of a 'dispute' I kept quiet and said it was lovely to hear from him, he has said when he gets a day off he would like to meet me for a day out in London, and he will try and keep in contact.

I just hope and pray that when the AP's read this that they do not take it out on him, or make life difficult for him by telling him anymore 'lies'. Also I hope that they realise that he is an adult and can make his own decissions and it is WRONG of them to say that he does not want to see me, either on his own or with them.

Only 4 months and my DD will be 18, I hope that she will not be too influenced by what she is being told now, but her brother can tell her 'my side' of things hopefully.

I just wanted to share this with you, but now I must get ready for bed, and find some more tissues!!

The letter I sent does not appear to have reached him, but if he has been away I suspect that his post has been intercepted....more than that I would not like to say. He has said that he DOES want an envelope with some info. in it as he has heard one side of the story and wants to know the other.

Love to all Bunglie XX

Beetroot · 08/09/2004 21:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

MummyToSteven · 08/09/2004 21:27

great news, Bunglie!

JanH · 08/09/2004 21:36

Bunglie, I am soooo happy for you to hear this. I'm sure it won't be long before both your children are free to talk to you and see you whenever you all want. Hugs (and )

Your DS sounds like such a strong and sensible person and I think DD is her own woman too. Not long now. XXX

aloha · 08/09/2004 23:33

Hooray!!! So happy for you Bunglie. Fantastic. Do please send him that letter. And if the APs are reading this.........................................................................................................................BOO!

Bunglie · 09/09/2004 09:03

I am still on cloud nine!

Today is quite important, Ican't say why, (But I am sure in due course I shall tell you, and NO I am not getting married!! ) Just keep your fingers crossed that all goes well!

IMPORTANT
SofiaAmes, have sent you an email, about tonight,
I'm so sorry! sob, sob

Still can not believe that my ds telephoned me last night....oh I am still on cloud nine....no ladder is high enough to get me down yet! I don't want to come down and I have lot's of 'thermous jugs' of tea to keep me going
(If you don't undrstand the reference to 'thermous jugs' ask Beety, and I shall make sure you get one for Christmas!)

You can see Bunglie has lost the plot, and is too happy to care about it....love to all XX

MeanBean · 09/09/2004 09:13

Fantastic news Bunglie.... the excitement mounts!

(Did you get my e-mail by the way? )

MummyToSteven · 09/09/2004 09:15

good luck for whatever it is today bunglie!

InnKogNeeToe · 09/09/2004 11:32

Hi all

Thanks bunglie for enquiring how I am
Im still here
So happy for you, and hope it just continues and continues for you....

Take care all and be safe
InnKogNeeToe

luckymum · 09/09/2004 21:01

Bunglie +++++++++++

edam · 09/09/2004 21:07

Oh, Bunglie, that's wonderful!
Hurrah for your gorgeous ds and double hurrah for you!
Am grinning now!

kalex · 09/09/2004 21:13

HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY

Yeah Go Bunglie.

OP posts:
Bunglie · 10/09/2004 22:11

A poster on another thread posted that she thought that the Social Services were a "Necessary Evil". I have posted a link to this thread as we are used to discussing the Social Services and I did not want to detract from the discussion on that thread.

Unfortunately the poster is correct. but only partially in my view, and I should like to know your views?

The Social Services are Necessary. Child abuse DOES exist, and to say it does not, to me is plain silly. So, we do need a Social Services dept. However, I feel it was not fair on all the good social workers to describe them as "evil", and I am certain that it was not meant in this way. But it was just used as a 'turn of phrase'.

Putting MSbP asside for one moment...I think we have to accept that we do need social workers, however, I do think that something has gone wrong with the system when we start viewing them all as a threat. If I am truthful I think of them in this way and as people to be avoided, but then I guess I have 'cause' to think of them like this. It did make me wonder though, and want to put the question to you, "In light of recent press coverage, mis-carriages of justice etc. do you trust social workers?"

They seem to have a very difficult job, no one likes having their personal lives intruded into and yet they are there to protect our children.

I have recently read a lot of damning reports about SW's and I certainly have no reason to trust them, but I do think that they are necessary. I wondered how people in general feel about SW's, because I realise that my view is biased and no matter how hard I tried to change it, deep down I would still feel mistrust and yes, that they were 'evil'. I know my attitude is wrong, but I do not know if I am alone thinking this, along with other mothers who have been 'falsely accused'. So, what I would like to know is, "do you trust Social Workers" as individuals or is it the system they work in that you do not trust and consider them as "evil" because of this system rather than the people that they are"?

Does this make sense to anyone? or am I off on one of my tangents?

Next comes the harder question.....If it is the system that is at fault, and we agree (do we?)that we need a Social Services dept. How can we make it work for us, to protect our children, and make it 'user friendly' so we are not afraid to contact them if a child were say in danger or at risk? Or, is it Bunglie making too much of an innocent remark? And you would have no problem contacting them, talking to them and find them 'user friendly' already?

Finally I would like to thank the poster for making this comment because it has made me think. I hope that she does not take my views of her comment as being critical, that is NOT my intention, but it did set me wondering if we are blaming the social servises, who seem to get the 'dirty work', for a lot when we do actually need them to help us in so many other ways.

Do you understand what I mean? If so what are your thoughts and views? If you do think it is the system rather than the individual social workers is there an answer? Or should I get back to 'snail hunting' and forget about little things like this?

Please don't worry about offending me, I am still on cloud nine as my ds contacted me. I still need your advice regarding my ds and something else, which is a bit more 'legal' so any of you solicitors out there I would appreciate your advice but I will post again when I have come back down to earth and I have my head screwed on the right way around!

Love to all, and thank you to the MNer who made me realise that I WAS clumping all SW's together as an "evil lot of busybodies"!

Bunglie XX
PS might not be on line too much this weekend I have just ordered some Ben and Jerries Choc, Chip flavour etc. Tesco's are doing a special offer of 2 tubs for £5....So I could have a Bunglie Bear tummy ache!

SofiaAmes · 10/09/2004 23:00

Bunglie, I'm sorry that I didn't post about your earlier question and your most recent post made me want to really have my say.

My one an only personal experience with ss was long before "meeting" you and this thread and it turned me from a believer to someone who wouldn't trust ss with a cup of tea, let alone the welfare of my children or anyone else's. The interaction went like this: My dh's ex's current live in boyfriend was a heroin addict, crack dealer who had been seen around town slapping my dh's daughter. There had already been 3 armed drug raids on her house and dh's son was having trouble at school. When the ex then threatened to move to a caravan in Scotland on the monday with the children and the boyfriend, dh got really worried and called ss to see if there was anything they could do to help (ie visit the house, check on the welfare of the children etc. etc.), as we live a 2 hour drive away. The woman at ss said to dh that she thought he sounded like "a jealous, vindictive ex" (I was listening on the other line and heard her say this) and that she couldn't possibly make a report anonymously and would have to tell dh's ex that it was him complaining. He tried to point out to her that that would only harm the children as it would cause her to prevent him from seeing them. She insisted that it was impossible to have the report done anonymously. The report was never made. And the promised return call from this social worker's supervisor never took place. We have had our lives threatened by ex's boyfriend and dh's relationship with his children has deteriorated to almost non-existent. Maybe I am guilty of tarring all social workers with the same brush, but nothing I have read on mumsnet or heard from other friends regarding their interactions has done anything to change my mind.

Bunglie · 11/09/2004 11:05

Thank you Sofia, Bunglies mind is once again at rest that she is not causing any child to be at 'risk', due to what is being posted here.
As you can see I can easily work myself up into a state, thinking that I am in the 'wrong' and that I have influenced you all, (even subconsciously!) against the authorities etc etc. So I shall now let the whole subject 'lie' and get back on track!

I am no certain if anyone can help me, or point me in the right direction to look, however, I am not certain that you will remember but my 'files' at the solicitors I used were destroyed.

I was then informed that 'there are special regulations relating to Wardship files, and that they should not be destroyed until the Ward has reached 18 years of age and then 3-6 years after that'

I do not have a refeerence as to who informed me of that, but even the solicitor, until now, has agreed that this is the case, and that they would do all they could to reconstruct the files. Now the other solicitors involved appear to have kept their files and have offered 'copy files' IF the solicitor who destroyed my files pay!

After 6 months, having signed 5 letters of authority etc. I still had not received one single document. I reported the matter to the Law Society about 4 weeks ago and they telephoned me yesterday evening and informed me that the solicitors who had destroyed my files were correct, and that there are NO special regulations relating to Wardship files. I am now left in the position where I have to pay and contact solicitors for copy files, and of course the local authority will not give me a copy of theirs!

Are there any solicitors amongst any of you, or anyone who can help me find the origional peice of information stating that the files should have been kept, under special regulations concerning the storage and destruction of wardship papers?

The Law Society say they will only pursue this only if I can provide them with a copy of the regulation! When I mentioned destruction of my personal property the woman from the Law Society said "Hard-luck, it's gone, nothing we can do and your out of time if you wanted compensation"!!

It seems odd to me that the other solicitors kept their files, but are NOT saying that there is a regulation, so I wonder if it is just an un-written agreement or something.

Does anyone have any advice, help or ideas? Because I am 'up a creak with out a paddle' unless I can come up with something by Monday/Tuesday.

H-E-L-P Bunglie XX

MummyToSteven · 11/09/2004 11:09

will do a bit of digging for the info bunglie - wish me luck!

MummyToSteven · 11/09/2004 11:24

bunglie - i have found the same answer that i think if found before to this question - that your consent should have been sought before they destroyed your papers:

if you look for Annex 12A Ownership and Storage of Documents paragraph 5 (do a search on the law society web site). Annex 12A will be to the Solicitors Guide to Professional Conduct.

I am absolutely disgusted at the Law Society's attitude to you - they ought to have looked up the position themselves on client files IMHO - they ought to know or be prepared to check their own code of conduct.

hth

edam · 11/09/2004 11:51

I don't understand what they mean by 'out of time'. As far as I'm aware, time for making a claim starts running once you are aware of the problem/negligence/cause for action. So parents of children who were deprived of oxygen at birth don't have to start legal proceedings within seconds of the birth but within x no of years of discovering that what happened was malpractice, or that it is actionable.
Whatever way you cut it, this firm of solicitors has behaved irresponsibly and caused you damage by making it much more difficult for you to take your case. Law Society should be apologising to you, not getting defensive and rude.
Afraid I have heard that Law Society is bloody unhelpful and obstructive ? it's a nightmare complaining about doctors, but apparently Law Society makes that look like a breeze. Not sure, though, where the regulators, the Office for Supervision of Solicitors, sits in all this; whether it comes under the aegis of the Law Society or is independent.
HTH

MummyToSteven · 11/09/2004 11:53

agree with edam on the "out of time" point - how were you to know the solicitors lost the file until you asked for them. will carry on digging to see if can find more info specifically relating to wardship docs

MummyToSteven · 11/09/2004 12:20

Bunglie re:Social Services. On reflection, I don't think that the MSBP cases/your story has had much influence on my views of SS at all, but reinforced opinions I already held. With the MSBP cases I feel that the lion's share of blame lies with Meadows et al, and although SS are meant I believe to carry out an independent investigation, I can understand the difficulties social workers would face in dealing with supposedly compelling medical evidence. I think my views of SS have been far more influenced by the North Wales (and other homes) child abuse cases, Satanic abuse cases, and the sadly regular hand-wringing cases - Jasmine Beckford, Victoria Climbie etc. I still find it so haunting with Victoria Climbie that a wrong diagnosis of scabies cut off all effective avenues of help to that poor girl. I would reiterate that we were all adults and can make up our own minds.

Bunglie · 11/09/2004 12:21

Awe! Thank you,

I have not had a chance to look at the refences yet M27 (sorry, I know it's Steven, but old habbits die hard!)

I need something that specifically states that Wardship paper should be kept until the Ward is 18 years old.

Thank you, thank you! for helping me, I really do not know where I would be without Mumsnet....In a bigger pickle know doubt, full of snails!

My guest for the weekend eats Ben and Jerries, and is a member of their fan club, so I guess I shall have more time to post as she eats her way through my supply!!

She is of course a MNer, so for a 'spoonful' of B & J's I may let her post and then you will find out who my mystery guest is, if you have not already guessed!!

Thank you again for you hard work on my behalf, I will set 'Her' to work when she arrives.....or no Ben and Jerries!

Seriously though, the Law Society, Office of Solictors......and something, are not being at all helpful and think I am making a 'fuss about nothing', so I really do need to find something.

I thought I would send DS a txt this weekend, any suggestions? I have been told to try and cultivate and maintain contact with him. If I can build up a relationship with him, hopefully he will pass info. to his sister, and I have been advised to only tell him 'my side' when we have got a good relationship going, not before, as the AP's may say it is untrue etc. etc. So I have to build up a relationship with him and then tell him the truth. I guess it makes sense, but it is very frustrating when he wants to know and I want to tell him. Either way I think it will come as a big shock as to what really happened and I want to make certain he does have some kind of support when he finds out the truth. I guess I am rambelling again, sorry, but I am excited at having contact with him again, I don't want to loose it and I need to find out about the files.

Thanks again, Bunglie XX