What do people think is most likely to happen with the irish/UK Border Part 2.

[cathyclown]

OK I took it upon myself in my arrogance. Nah, just enjoyed all the views whether we agreed or not, it has been very interesting.

So carry on folks. Link below to the original thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/a3096781-What-do-people-think-is-most-likely-to-happen-with-the-Irish-UK-border?msgid=73760649#73760649

I get that & I honestly don't believe that a hard border is ever going to happen within the island of Ireland - there are a very, very tiny amount of people that actually want that, and very few that would actually go as far as to accepting that as an option (and those that would are not in a position of power to make it a reality, even if they did countenance it).

However, I do think that the more that Leave voters within the U.K. see/believe that there are people trying to derail & reverse Brexit & that those people are using Ireland as a pawn in that, any empathy & sympathy for Ireland & NI's position will start to wane.

We already saw it last week when anti-Brexiters jumped on the border issue as a tool to further their own ends (not through genuinely caring about Ireland).

That's fair enough Faith, but I've done loads of reading about this and I can't find any country that has completely open borders with another, completely separate country, without having very fixed trade and travel arrangements - and a fixed border or a physical border at some sort of "outer ring".

Canada is obviously different, because there is a physical border - the sea. Ukraine is different because they are trying to get closer to the EU, not move away from trade and travel freedoms.

Norway is in Schengen and in the Single Market, and there are very strict rules about goods entering EU from Norway. From what I've read the UK has rejected the idea of a Norway type deal because it's too restrictive for trade deals with other countries.

As mineallmine says, we in Ireland, north and Republic are worried. And our worries are in no way helped by the fact that May, Davis and half the British negotiating team don't seem to have any idea what they are saying, what they want, or whether their proposals (whatever they may be) are feasible.

Just saying "no hard border in Ireland" - "no different treatment for NI" - "no staying in the Customs Area" - "no Schengen" etc etc doesn't make us hopeful that they have any idea at all.

x-post.

I know that's how people see it, but that's because they have no idea about Ireland. People raising the border issue aren't jumping on anything to derail Brexit (well some of them might be, but they are still right). They are pointing out the obvious barrier to the type of Brexit that the UK government is aiming towards.

It's impossible to completely leave the single market and the customs union AND not enforce that with a border. It can't be done; it isn't done anywhere in the world. Either countries have agreements, or they have borders.

Just saying "no hard border in Ireland" - "no different treatment for NI" - "no staying in the Customs Area" - "no Schengen" etc etc doesn't make us hopeful that they have any idea at all.

I know - those positions aren't in any way compatible with each other at all, there is no simple solution which will please everyone so we know that the final outcome is going to piss some people off.

I'm 99.99999% certain that the border will never happen - they'll piss off the hard Brexiters rather than contemplate a border I think in all honesty.

Sadly, I do think Ireland has been treated like a pawn by anti-Brexiters recently though.

I think it'll be a Norway-type deal, which will piss everyone off.

But will at least mean you lot will be able to travel around Europe - I think people in the UK have forgotten what it's like to have to queue into and out of every country, to have suitcases and boots of cars searched etc etc.

If die-hard Brexiters get their way, I think some people will get quite a surprise when they head to Spain for their holidays and their duty free [sigh]

I actually think Ireland is being treated as a pawn by both sides The EU seems to be being very nice about the North and trying their best to encourage force the UK government to at least pretend to remember that they have 2 million British people living there [more sighs]

I'm 99.99999% certain that the border will never happen

I hope so, but it does mean we'll have to have open our trade borders with everyone in the WTO if they are to become our new Masters. Great if you want to buy whatever cheap crap is going in the world, not so good if you want to try and export.

I don’t think there’s any workable solution that won’t piss everyone off.

Actually, there might be one.

Sssshhhhhh, Rafa, not that solution

That would be terrible. Once you have made a decision, It doesn't matter how bad a mistake you realise you have made, or how much it's going to cost you, or how ill-informed you were when you made it, or how many times others have offered you the opportunity to reconsider, or how many people are going to be hurt by it, it's really, really important, a matter of principle, a sign of your great strength of character that you stick to your guns, stand with your beliefs, and carry on [gavel]

Sorry. Were we not supposed to mention that.