What do people think is most likely to happen with the irish/UK Border Part 2.

[cathyclown]

OK I took it upon myself in my arrogance. Nah, just enjoyed all the views whether we agreed or not, it has been very interesting.

So carry on folks. Link below to the original thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/a3096781-What-do-people-think-is-most-likely-to-happen-with-the-Irish-UK-border?msgid=73760649#73760649

‘This government introduced this withdrawal bill to ensure a smooth and orderly exit’

How well’s that going for them?

Really Rafa --> heads to google.

Wow.

Just trying to work it out - it was backbenchers who voted against, not the DUP?

Does that mean that if enough backbenchers decide to challenge, Brexit could be put on hold?

I think the amendment about setting an exact date is being debated next week. Apparently there are more Tory backbenchers against that than there were for the amendment about Parliament having to agree to the terms.

I don’t know if there’s any mechanism for putting it on hold unless the exiting the EU committee decide to.

I feel really thick coming on here asking this, but can someone on this very well informed thread please explain to me exactly what the implications are of the vote yesterday?

All i can glean is that the rebels voted for an amendment to the Brexit bill which gives parliament the final vote on the terms of Brexit. Is that correct?

Why does this mean the end of the Tory party? (which is amazing obvs but i dont understand why)

From my understanding, both leading parties are split between Brexit/Remain, so it was hardly a surprise (to me) that some MP's would vote that way. So basically TM is saying that they all have to vote for what she wants them to vote for...?

I just need a simple explanation - I am reasonably well educated but this whole schizzle perplexes me.

MarthasHarbour The point of the vote is it is now 'law' that parliament will now get to vote on the final deal, and could well refuse it. May was offering a vote, but it wouldn't prevent the final deal from going through whichever way the vote went.

The tory party is split between leavers and remainers, and with such a small majority, May needs all tory MPs to back her, that didn't happen last night.

I'll join you on the "I thought I knew wtf was going on but now I feel thick" bench, Martha

Thanks ifailed, I cross-posted with you.

Can I ask - if parliament refuses the final deal, what happens then? Does the UK leave without a deal, or is it delayed until a deal is made?

Maryz I believe if the deal is rejected, we still leave the EU in 2019 as May triggered article 50 (without thinking this through, clearly!) so the clock was set ticking. Of course, the EU and UK may be able to agree an extension to the 2 year limit, and I could see this happening.

Shit - we are all fucked if Maryz is in the dark and is all WTF however this actually makes me feel a whole lot better!!

Thank you ifailed I saw the Daily Heil front page on the BBC website this morning and it is horrific, really really whipping my-mother the Brexiteers into a tailspin.

I may remain on this thread as I need educating, particularly when a visit from my DM (mother - not the mail!) is on the cards as she is hardline

Hmm, that would be a right mess for Ireland - if the UK left without any agreement at all.

Would it be too much to hope for that if there was a large enough majority of mp's objecting to stop the agreement, that might trigger a general election. And if, by then, enough mp's were sufficiently aware of the impact of Brexit that they were willing to stand against their own party on the issue, that someone, somewhere, might be brave enough to stand up and say "hang on a sec, who would support a cross-party investigation into rethinking this entire thing?".

Is that a possibility, I wonder.

I will just leave this here - Reminds me of the 'Enemies of the People' headline. What is laughable is that before all of this debacle Jezzer Corbyn was a secret Brexiteer and May was an out and out Remainer

We can all hope Mary

The DM really are shits, aren't they?

Those people should be proud of themselves. They are standing up for the ordinary people, those who have no voice. They were elected to parliament to speak for ALL their constituents, not just those who want to leave the EU. By forcing this vote, they are giving the elected members of parliament the right to veto an agreement that may be made by the most incompetent set of EU negotiators it's possible to imagine. They are currently making Yes Minister look like a serious documentary.

Hmm - does this basically mean we are hostage to the headbangers? If they come back with some sort of less disastrous deal and enough unreconstructed No Dealers vote against, no deal it is?

Oh. No wonder they were a bit desperate.

Now you have me wondering if there are enough mp's across all parties to have a majority for "we don't want any deal at all, we just want out, we don't care about anyone else, we'll be fine on our own, we'll have our borders and our SOVEREIGNTY and our bendy bananas, we don't need you lot at all"

I suppose in theory they could all get together and really cause shit [sigh]

It's not just the 'deal or no deal' although that's what's grabbed all the headlines.
It's timing as well.

The vote last night means that it will go through full parliamentary process, all readings, report stage, House of Lords etc - it has the potential to turn the actual process into a shambles (as is the British way).
Presumably they'll be able to push things through quicker than the usual slow machinations though.

I'll move up on the confused/no idea what's going on bench then.

We might need to make space for May and Davis as well.

So every stage has to be debated and approved by full Parliament, not be a Committee?

Wow. What a fuck up.

Though to be fair it was a bit of a shambles anyway, this won't make much difference [we really need a [sigh] emoji]

This is a little bit like a divorce really.

With one side being rather nice, and saying "yes, off you go, as soon as you like, but before you can finalise it we really need to sort out money and the house and the children".

And the other side saying "I can go as soon as I like, I don't need you, everything's going to be fine, stop making a fuss and fgs stop going on about the fact that I'm lying about what I'm up to, covering up my spending and debts, refusing to face up to my responsibilities and not bothering to sort out any contact arrangements for the kids".

The first person is going to eventually say "well I'm not signing off on that".

Only multiplied by a million.

^^ what Maryz said!

Its nothing like a divorce, we didn't move in together, we didn't open a joint bank account and we didn't have kids.

Its is more like leaving a club we had joined. Where the club agreed via membership fees to collectively buy joint equipment so it lowered the individual cost for everyone.

Only the club committee got a bit drunk on power and continually kept asking for more and more money to feather their own nests. They invited to many disparate groups into the club. The club committee decided to start dictating a dress code and dictating how people should behave.

Now we have democratically decided to leave the club, the committee are trying to force us to pay part of their purchases for the next several decades. Um well no, that is unreasonable, we are not signing off on that.

We are being fair and saying we will follow the contract but we are not idiots and if you dont want an amicable separation then bye bye see you later.

Ridiculous nonsense from you julie

As expected.

LaurieMarlow, why does it upset you so much to hear the majorities point of view?

Actually because it saddens me that the type of brexiteer you describe (and there's no evidence that these are the majority) have so little understanding of their obligations and duty in the world. And are happy to tell themselves lies to suit their own poorly thought out position. HTH.