What do people think is most likely to happen with the irish/UK Border Part 2.

[cathyclown]

OK I took it upon myself in my arrogance. Nah, just enjoyed all the views whether we agreed or not, it has been very interesting.

So carry on folks. Link below to the original thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/a3096781-What-do-people-think-is-most-likely-to-happen-with-the-Irish-UK-border?msgid=73760649#73760649

Except the EU have now said it isn’t legally binding, but they have shaken hands on it. And May is saying they will only uphold it if we can agree a trade deal.

Meanwhile Daily Mash articles are writing themselves.
www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/may-confirms-sense-of-optimism-actually-means-never-ending-sea-of-piss-20171211140769

I Think that’s generally the view of civil servants working with him, Liney

Ok so in essence as no solution has been found, everybody agreed to set the issue asside by an agreement that is not worth the paper it is written on as it is not binding? So the UK got what it wanted (to get to the the trades talk) and the EU gave up the subject?

Seems to me the Tories have just kicked the can down the road, hopefully until after the next election so they can blame the next government for the mess they've created.

I don’t know if the EU have agreed it. Isn’t that what the meeting on Thursday is about?

You have to feel sorry for the EU negotiating team and Varadkar. It can’t be easy dealing with this bunch of incompetent fools.

For those of you who don't get the Irish papers, here is the Irish Times take on it

I know there is a paywall, but it should work for most of you, and I suspect it's pretty accurate.

The three possible outcomes are clearly explained.

I think that (again) the UK government is being slightly economical with the truth, and are reserving the right to blame Ireland if it all goes to shit.

That Irish Times article seems completely absent reality. If we dont get a free trade deal with the EU and go onto a world trade deal then the agreement so far is completely disposable.

The ECJ can say we agreed to pay x amount, we reply saying no, that was contingent on free trade. The ECJ would hold no sway over the UK and any rulings it makes will have no meaning to us.

Likewise the meaning of 'full alignment' can be argued over but with no deal the EU has no authority to enforce us to do anything and it will be for the UK to act as it decides.

The whole agreement so far is a good will gesture contingent on the EUs good will in forging a genuine free trade with us.

That Irish Times article seems completely absent reality. If we dont get a free trade deal with the EU and go onto a world trade deal then the agreement so far is completely disposable

Not quite...

"Even if the European Council does recognise sufficient progress on Friday, we will have a final agreement only if the political commitments taken by Theresa May on behalf of the British government last Friday are respected. We will be vigilant.

We will not accept any backtracking from the UK on commitments in the Joint Report. All our points of agreement are now closed."

And

"First, we will need to ensure that the Joint Report is translated into legally binding and precise language for the Withdrawal Agreement. What I told Ministers is that we will be ready to present a draft of the withdrawal agreement early in the new year."

europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-17-5249_en.htm

I don’t think it’s the article that’s absent reality.

And as we will have already moved onto discussing the free trade deal it will be to late to try and force us into anything we dont want to without everything being agreed.

Davies is a complete joke. I'd be mortified to have him represent me on the world stage.

Anyway, EU getting tough with the Brits. Brexit not turning out to be the absolute walk in the park that was promised.

Davies is a complete joke. I'd be mortified to have him represent me on the world stage.

I am mortified by him at the same time as having no sense that he represents me on the world stage. I feel completely detached from the UK Govt.

Julie8008 must be David Davis's top legal adviser.

It’s amazing how he still has a job. The only reason he’s not being investigated for contempt of parliament seems to be that the people responsible for that vote were 10 Tory MPs and a DUP MP.

Oh, are you still here Julie? I was really hoping that they got rid of you for your shitty remarks on other threads.

You should try believing someone other than the UK politicians who have been proven to be lying.

lol Maryz, I am sorry everyone doesn't agree with your remoaner rhetoric but we are leaving the EU, just like most of the country voted for. And your insults aren't going to change that .

I really don't think we'll be leaving the EU any time soon, tbh.

I'm not a remainer of any type, I don't care, I'm not in the UK, nothing to do with me - apart from challenging people who are either quite happy to accept lies, or are to stupid to realise they are lies.

Your attitude on this and on other threads stinks though, so I hope that whatever you want to happen doesn't happen

How many countries would be happy to engage in trade talks with a government whose left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing, or one in which factions clearly have daggers out for each other, and in which the word of the PM has been shown time and time again to be worthless. (Remind me, how long did it take after the handshake in Brussels before Gove published his Torygraph article basically repudiating everything his own PM had said and done? And was this with the full knowledge and approval of the PM?)

The UK is coming off worse than a banana republic here - only trustworthy until the next coup, or if the first born of every cabinet member is pledged as a hostage to ensure compliance with agreements. The North Korea of the western world.

There comes a point Julie, when the Tory party should realise that the rest of the world can see and hear all of what is being said and done in Westminster.

Tory rebels not happy. Debating now.

I did read somewhere over the past few days that there might be a mutiny over this bill.

Who do we have that could form some sort of strong and competent negotiation team? Even if it’s cross party.

The government have lost the vote 305 to 309.

The government need to work with Keir Starmer and Vince Cable, possibly.