What do people think is most likely to happen with the Irish/UK border?

[coffeclub]

What is the most likely solution?

I'm with JRM, Maursh & julie8008 on this

The UK doesn't need or want to erect a border. It's the EU that are desperate for a border

I rather think it was Brexit voters who wanted 'control of our borders' among other vague, ill-thought through wants.

You can't just make the statement "the UK doesn't want a border". If the UK doesn't have a border with Ireland, it can't have a border with the EU at all, so full free movement of goods and services at every point

How does your 'no need for a border' work again ?

The UK doesn't need or want to erect a border. It's the EU that are desperate for a border

See, this wilful stupidity is what we're up against. Ffs.

I keep seeing people say "the UK doesn't want a border, the EU wants one, they should put it up and enforce it".

But I have never, ever seen any proof of this, any argument to support it. Just plopping in the argument and fecking off.

I really would like to understand - if there is no need for borders, if free movement of goods, services and people is ok, why Brexit at all?

So did Teresa May's coalition with the DUP make the border issue even more complex? Votes at any cost?

Just watching Sunday politics and Owen Paterson is saying exactly the same as Faith and similarly not providing the 'how' this will happen.

And even said ROI were blackmailing the UK

What an utter knobber.

Wrt movement of people, there is no need for a border within the island of Ireland or between the island & the rest of UK.
The CTA will continue to exist, as it did pre EU.

The likelihood of Ireland being utilised as a staging post for onward movement of 'hordes of immigrants' to UK post Brexit is a remainer creation - it's 'how they imagine Brexiters will react'.

Wrt movement of goods & services, this is exactly why the border question cannot be settled until the future trade deal is discussed.

It is movement of goods, not people that is the sticking point wrt borders.

'ROI were blackmailing the UK'

wow! Isn't that gaslighting?

How come people can just make statements like that with no facts, figures or evidence? It makes no sense to me.

Faith, you still haven't explained why the UK don't want a border. Have you any evidence whatsoever of why no border would be good for the UK but bad for Europe (and by evidence I don't mean X politician says so). I'd also like evidence as to why the UK think they can legally have no border in Ireland, but a hard border at, for example, Calais.

So Teresa May's government haven't been able to come up with a solution, but they have clearly decided on a PR strategy to defect blame.

Did he say Republic of Ireland? I thought the correct name was Ireland.

And why do Brexiteers use the term Eire?

If only Ireland would leave as well, everything would be simplified.

Anyone who uses Eire is an ignorant git. Paisley used to do it to piss everyone off. Republic of Ireland is ok, Ireland is better (since that is the actual name of the country).

I'm beginning to think the UK officials in charge know exactly what they are doing - minimising the reaction of the people of the UK when they discover what a fuck up it is by passing the blame to anyone else they can.

I hope the UK public aren't stupid enough to swallow all this. Though I really shouldn't get my hopes up considering how much tripe the UK public appear to have believed in the run up to the referendum.

Is there any possibility Ireland will be forced to leave the EU over this?

Twooter, I hope that was ironic

ffs, why should we?

Why on earth should the UK committing economic suicide mean we have to follow them over the cliff. We aren't lemmings.

This is getting more ridiculous by the day.

It does not matter who crosses the border ROI to NI.

Brexit voter thinks "control our borders" is about people physically crossing the border.
Reality: immigration policy is enforced by employers & service providers. It barely matters who crosses the border ROI to NI, ability to actually settle is controlled NOT at the border.

Some Brexiters gush about how we'll soon be able to import cheap goods, 20-40% cheaper due to no EU-imposed tariffs. Is What I mean by "relaxed" attitudes towards non-people imports (ie, the border).

External borders, the EU worries about stuff (goods, capital, services) coming into EU. EU doesn't want cheap imported crap/dodgy money/poor services undermining EU product quality & businesses, (strangely enough). That's why the EU wants to control its borders with UK.

Glad to see you posting, Maryz... but don't accuse everyone of using Eire to be a git. I'll accept ignorant label. It's only because of MN that I read that using Eire is bad. Not sure why & I'm getting too old to remember why.

(Joannie Furriner here)

Is there any possibility Ireland will be forced to leave the EU over this?

Ireland is very Pro EU and will prioritise their relationship with the EU over their relationship with the UK. Although obviously they would rather remain on good terms with both.

The CTA will continue to exist, as it did pre EU.

No, the CTA was based on the UK and the ROI having the same customs arrangements. The UK has chosen to exit from the current customs agreement.

They cannot expect the rest of the member states to think its OK for the UK to make its own new customs arrangements with the rest of the world, possibly allowing the import of goods which do not meet EU health and safety regulations which could then pass freely from the UK into the EU via Ireland without customs checks.

I suppose the UK could sign an agreement with the EU that it will keep EU regulations in place on any goods that it imports from the rest of the world, but that rather scuppers the hopes of the hard Brexiteers who want to slash all these regulations in order for us to be a more appealing trade partner to China/the US etc.

Fair enough lljkk. I'll rephrase: anyone continuing to use the term Eire after being told it's incorrect is a git . That includes Ian Paisley!

Ireland is very Pro EU and will prioritise their relationship with the EU over their relationship with the UK.

Even if the EU requires a border?

Even if the EU requires a border?

Frankly, yes. Cos it's the UK who have fucked up this whole situation. There isn't a lot of goodwill towards the UK in Ireland at the moment. Personally I fully support pretty much every statement made by Varadkar and Coveney and Phil Hogan. They are basically echoing the views of the people.

www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/brexit-hogan-calls-on-may-to-change-course-on-north-border-1.3305775?mode=amp

The people of Ireland are not ridiculous enough to leave the EU and why should they?

I'm delighted they are playing hardball.

Frankly, yes. Cos it's the UK who have fucked up this whole situation

Interesting. I thought maybe leaving the EU would be preferable to a possible return to violence.

I too am glad Ireland is standing their ground on this, and being backed up by the EU

What I'm seeing is that some people don't seem to realise that NI is part of the UK. And that they think the EU has some responsibility for borders between nation states. I don't think (please correct me if I'm wrong!) this is part of the EU's remit?
You are correct in the sense that once UK has left EU, the EU cannot dictate to the UK border arrangements with other countries. Generally though the EU's remit does cover border in the sense that countries in the EU cannot stop other EU nationals entering. The EU also has some say in human rights when countries would like to repatriate citizens of other countries.

How can Leavers not be bothered about a border between the EU and the UK when a whole heap of Leavers wanted to end freedom of movement of workers?! I may be completely wrong but this is doublethink, surely?
I am a leaver, and here is my perspective:

• there has been an open border between UK and Ireland since 1921
• Ireland is not part of schengen
• Anyone who enter the UK from Ireland "without authorisatoin" will still be "illegal" (I put these in inverted commas since no one knows what the terms of people movement will be from EU to UK post Brexit). It will be harder to find work and hence unattractive if people enter illegally
• Immigration to the UK will continue post Brexit - there are skills gaps, if nothing else - only we will be able to control it, by issuing work permits where skilled labour is required, but hiring locally first.