What do people think is most likely to happen with the Irish/UK border?

[coffeclub]

What is the most likely solution?

And why do Brexiteers use the term Eire?

And why do some Brexiteers as well as remainers use the term Eire?

(Fixed that for you).

@GaspodeWonderCat

I am not sure which agreement(s) you are referring to

The Good Friday Agreement (between UK and ROI) to end the 'troubles'in NI. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Friday_Agreement. It is still quite important in keeping the peace ...

The context of the statement was referring to agreement which the EU could still impose of the UK post Brexit - you have so evidently with not understood or taken this out of context, so let me reiterate: The UK will not put up a border - the EU cannot impose a border on the UK -

I am explaining this so it is clearly understood that the Irish Republic can set up a border when the UK don't

I live outside the EU and cross a border weekly by land - here is how it works, here and everywhere else outside the cosy agreements of places like the EU:

I leave the country I live, going through 2 checkpoints, one for customs and one for passports
I am then in no man's land
I then go through two more checkpoints: customs and passport control before arriving in the new country

Given a choice between remaining in the EU and becoming (effectively) a part of the UK, is there anyone in the entire world who would think that Ireland would choose the UK?

We have been royally fucked by the UK over centuries; who would trust the UK government to put Ireland anywhere but at the very bottom of the very extensive pile of shite that Brexit has caused.

Faith, if you want anyone to take any notice of your arguments it's usually a good idea to stay at least fairly polite . Not that it seems to me that you have any argument, just a constant repetition of "statements that I'm parroting after hearing politicians say them" - not exactly convincing, in my opinion.

It's all going to be fine: "Interesting. I thought maybe leaving the EU would be preferable to a possible return to violence."

That's an interesting way of putting it and really shows how little the UK cares about Ireland, any part of the island. Because it could be reversed as "I thought maybe staying in the EU would be preferable to a possible return to violence" - the UK (as a whole) cares nothing about violence in part of it's own country, which should be shocking, but is par for the course, sadly.

I very very rarely step into the world of the sun comment section. But I am truly embarrassed, mortified and angry at the comments that Ireland "should shut it's gob" and stop "disrespecting the will of 17.4 millions Britons". (Roughly paraphrased.)

Oh my god. www.thesun.co.uk/news/4940971/irelands-naive-young-prime-minister-should-shut-his-gob-on-brexit-and-grow-up/

It is so appalling that something of this seriousness is has been brought down to this level. I know its the sun but still I am shocked.

Maursh - haven't you just explained how there will be a border? In fact, effectively you cross two borders, one leaving your country, one entering the EU.

How can you then say "The UK will not put up a border - the EU cannot impose a border on the UK"? That makes no sense to me

@Postagestamppat

I agree. The Irish are totally entitled to their opinion and they are in a bind given that 85% (?) of their exports are to the UK market

Maursh, that border you have described is a hard border. It would not work in the ROI as it is in contravention of the Good Friday agreement.

The level of ignorance is extraordinary [baffled]

Britain has a very inflated sense of its own importance. A quick google shows the EU to be much more important to us

I am a leaver, and here is my perspective:

• there has been an open border between UK and Ireland since 1921

Mmm maybe a trade border, I live in the North and can remember queing to cross the border in the 80's and 90's. It was not practical and will not be. Many people cross the border on their commute to work.

I am no expert but-
As for the brexit campaign itself, there was very campainging on the streets and political literature. Turn out in North was very low. I live in a DUP consituency and you wouldnt have even known there was an election. Parties didnt promote it because they knew it wouldnt be in their favour to leave. Sinn Fein consitutionally would have promoted a leave campaing to break up the union but know for the benefit of the people they had to support remain.

Now we are stuck in the middle.

Where did you get that 85% figure Maursh.

I do wish people would actually reference facts rather than just stating them, it's very confusing.

I apologise I had no idea that Eire wasn't a perfectly normal equivalent term meaning the same thing as Republic of Ireland. Sorry.

@Maursh Ireland exports more to Belgium than to the Uk. I read this in the FT earlier today - can get you the link if you need it. 85% is incorrect.

Maursh that sounds very like a veiled threat to be honest and it's wrong. While Ireland exports around 36% to Britain, Belgium is our highest exporters and America is our most lucrative. I never had a problem with the word Eire and didn't realise there was an issue with it.

@Maryz

What I am meaning (i thought I was clear - sorry), is that the UK will not put up an entry or exit border but the EU might force Southern Ireland to do so - so you have a border on one side (Ireland) but not on the other (N Ireland)

I will also point out that what you have said about the UK not caring about violence in the region could equally be applied to the EU. Also, I do think it is because the UK ministers concern themselves about the unstable situation and history that I cannot see them putting up a border. Consider that the deal on the table by the EU is not particularly attractive: why are we still negotiating and not walking away?

That's ok, yowerohotesies; technically it's wrong because it's the equivalent from a language point of view of English people referring to Germany as Deutschland, but historical use has rendered it as a bit of an insult when used by British people. Mostly, for me, because I have memories of Unionist politicians using it as a rather sneery put-down (though I accept I may be being a bit prickly about it).

It's very different when used by politicians/journalists who should know better and ordinary people who are using it because it appears to be an alternative name for Ireland.

But why should the EU care as much as Britain about the violence? The violence is in Britain (though some British people seem to think it's an Irish problem, not a British one). Saying the EU should care as much is like saying the EU should care as much about Catalonia as Spain does; of course they don't.

Spain should care about Catalonia. Britain should care about Northern Ireland. It's part of their country! The very fact that they don't is a shocking testimony to the sheer ignorance of most UK (English) politicians.

As to the "walking away" - that's fine, walk away. Pay your bills first, sort out your paperwork, decide on (and police) your borders. Stop blaming everyone else for the mess the UK is in.

Owen Paterson has been spouting that "87% of N Ireland's trade is with GB." I'm guessing that's now being repeated a lot and not challenged.

Of course, he also said, “only a madman would actually leave the Single Market“.

Jaysus, The Sun doesn't know its arse from its elbow.

This is the Irish version Leo Varadkar and Simon Coveney’s insistence that the UK spells out its vision for the island of Ireland post-Brexit is 100% correct

How ridiculous, even by the low Standards of the Sun newspaper group.

Maursh nobody wants to see a return to the hard border in Ireland. What is your suggestion that the EU should do given that it is the UK that no longer wishes to abide by the rules of the single market? If they don't want to be part of the single market, then there has to be a border with customs checks. If the EU allow goods from the UK to enter the single market without checks, then they would have to do the same for the rest of the world. These are the rules of a single market which are abundantly clear.

Given that it is the UK that has decided it no longer wants to be part of this, it is the UK government that needs to provide a solution. However, there seems to be an insistence by all pro-Brexiters to let everything be the EU's fault, even though they don't want any of this!

But why should the EU care as much as Britain about the violence? The violence is in Britain (though some British people seem to think it's an Irish problem, not a British one). Saying the EU should care as much is like saying the EU should care as much about Catalonia as Spain does; of course they don't.

Spain should care about Catalonia. Britain should care about Northern Ireland. It's part of their country! The very fact that they don't is a shocking testimony to the sheer ignorance of most UK (English) politicians.

As to the "walking away" - that's fine, walk away. Pay your bills first, sort out your paperwork, decide on (and police) your borders. Stop blaming everyone else for the mess the UK is in.

This. So much this.

Faith, if you want anyone to take any notice of your arguments it's usually a good idea to stay at least fairly polite

Where have I been impolite?

Faith, my comment was to your sarcastic "fixed that for you" quote. Don't you think it was a tad smart-arsey?

I'm still waiting for an answer to my questions (from anyone, not just you):

Have you any evidence whatsoever of why no border would be good for the UK but bad for Europe (and by evidence I don't mean X politician says so). I'd also like evidence as to why the UK think they can legally have no border in Ireland, but a hard border at, for example, Calais.

there has been an open border between UK and Ireland since 1921

Bullshit. After the forming of the Free State, custom controls etc. were set up; there are plenty of people around who remember them, so no attempt to gaslight this is going to work. They were abolished in 1993 as part of the EU Single Market. The UK set up military controls inside the NI, but these were not custom borders.