What do people think is most likely to happen with the Irish/UK border?

[coffeclub]

What is the most likely solution?

Passport or equivalent will be need to be shown as an ID check when boarding flights or boats - but this will not be a full border, that will only apply to non-Irish, non-British passport holders

But how do you know who doesn't have an Irish or British passport?

I travel between Ireland, NI and GB regularly so I'm fully aware of the situation as it stands. But I don't see how it can remain that way.

And besides, my understanding is that it's goods that are the main problem, not people.

Ireland and the EU have been clear in that they want to protect principles of GFA.

Ghost they fucked that bit up when they allowed the DUP into Westminster.

The Common Travel Area will not be affected by Brexit.

Goods are the issue, and the potential for dissos (dissident sleeping terrorists) to awaken from their slumber and realise how many millions they can make from smuggling again. That is all gone so is terrorism. Big result of GFA.

I do not want to see any of that again. But maybe the UK Government do. It is very hard to understand their side of the story, when they have presented nothing so far. But have neatly piled the problem onto Ireland and the EU for the benefit of DM/DE/Sun readers. And sadly it might work.

cathy
If you think a north/south issue isn't a problem, then why not just endorse a similar border to every other country in the EU?

they fucked that bit up when they allowed the DUP into Westminster

The DUP are NI

Whoya,

I don't think I said that at all. Maybe you could elaborate.

CTA will survive Brexit, it has nothing to do with EU.

But cross border trade NI/ROI will have to be monitored if a solution is not found. For reasons I mentioned earlier.

Over to you.

they fucked that bit up when they allowed the DUP into Westminster

They're elected representatives of constituencies in the UK, they've always been allowed in Westminster. As is right, seeing as how they have been elected (depressing though that is).

I’m also confused that brexiteers wanted to control borders but not one in Ireland

I'm not conflating all leave voters with posters on this thread, any more than I represent all remain voters.

Evidently we need some sort of border equivalent of Schrödinger's cat to satisfy the likes of Martina

ID check in the Irish sea is not a border

So you would have mandatory ID checks for everyone travelling from one part of the UK to another. At which point in the Irish Sea? At the NI ports and airports? Or when they land on the mainland? What if they go via the Isle of Man? Just checking id or also what they bring with them? How is this different from a border?
The border points never asked for a passport, they were checking what you had in the car and if you looked suspicious. We used to go on a shopping trip to Derry and come back with our new shoes on our feet so you couldn't tell we bought them and a bottle of whiskey hidden somewhere. Small, everyday smuggling. Others, as has been posted here, ran huge smuggling operations to fund terrorist activity.
Also having the check on the Irish Sea means an area of the United Kingdom is open to all that free movement of people and goods that brexit is supposed to stop. It doesn't stop for the UK, just the bit that seems to be convenient.
Which standards and trade rules do NI producers have to comply with? If the only division is an 'Id check' at some point along the Irish Sea, is NI supposed to be able to do frictionless trade with the UK and the EU? What's stopping an EU country importing huge amounts of goods, circumventing any trade or tariff agreement, and driving through the border, into the UK?
There's also smaller concerns that can be hammered out at other stages: currently there's agreements in place for reciprary healthcare. When living in Donegal I was able to go to Omagh for an operation. This was only made possible in recent years and is hugely beneficial, especially along the border when your closest hospital is on the other side. There's also an agreement 're penalty points, but I'm afraid I don't know the details,other than it aims to prevent people from being dicks then hopping across the border to get away with it.

To the poster who questioned why I mentioned the DUP being in power in Westminster? The reason is because as part of the GFA there will be a shared power in control of the North. The DUP being part of Westminster and therefore having an exclusive vote over the North as opposed to SF is against the GFA.

My broadband is playing up a bit, but I'll try again.

I'm a Belgian designer. I have a wedding gown to transport to and potentially sell to a UK customer.

I'm an Irish designer. I have a wedding gown to transport to and potentially sell to a UK customer.

How are my travel and trade and taxes going to differ?

FFS

Martina888 "An ID check between NI and GB is the answer here."

Are you entirely stupid? Sheep is not the word. It's insulting to sheep.

The above has been absolutely 100% ruled out by May and Foster, by the DUP and the British government.

Do you not want to know facts?

Ghost, if you don't know why Ireland is different, then there is no amount of posts that will educate you.

How are my travel and trade and taxes going to differ?

Nobody knows in the slightest - sorry

That's the fucking problem. They're talking in policies and shite rather than practicalities.

"if the EU does not accept that then they will be the instigators of a a kind of border in NI - let the onus on fall on them" (a border in the Irish sea)

More ignorance from Martina - this is the solution suggested by Ireland and the EU, and guess who rejected it? Go on, have a guess?

Jaysus.

I've been giving her the benefit of the doubt and assuming she was just a bit ignorant. Now I've decided she's either very stupid, or a goadyfucker. Or both [sigh]

Whoya,

You know full well that the issue relates to the free movement of goods across the previously seamsless NI/ROI border.

Your fantasy dress designers will have the same issues post Brexit if selling to the UK. Belgium and Ireland are EU, UK will not be. Tariffs will apply, I am not sure what your point is.

Ah but Maryz, apparently it's not a border, tis just a wee ID check that will magically know if you are a British citizen or not. Completely different suggestion, apparently.

Martina, for the last time ^IT'S BRITAIN WHO ARE REJECTING THE IDEA OF A BORDER IN THE IRISH SEA*

The EU has offered to allow NI to stay in the customs union. The EU has offered to diffuse the situation by allowing a border between NI and the rest of the UK. Ireland has agreed that this would be a good idea.

here is the DUP comment on that idea

And here is the British government view

So much for your "solution".

Sorry HolySchmoly obviously it's not a border.

The British government have ruled out the idea of having ID checks for people crossing the Irish sea, is that ok?

If some people on this thread have their way, you can put the dress on a plane from Belgium to Dublin, drive it up to the north (over the invisible border), cross on a ferry to Scotland (with possibly a polite person suggesting you show them the outside of your passport), and sell the dress in London. All lovely.

We are back to SandyBeachandtheDeckchairs's superb diagram up thread.

The irony about all this is that a good proportion of brexit voters have no clue, never will, never cared about any of this.

I know it can sound niche to many, but the NI/ROI Border issue is one of the planks in round one along with Citizens and divorce money.

And sorry to say it, but the uneducated, unwilling to be educated Brexiters will be fed a line via DM, DE, and the Sun to prove their point.

This picture, for those who haven't seen it.