What do people think is most likely to happen with the Irish/UK border?

[coffeclub]

What is the most likely solution?

How many people could draw the border between Scotland, England and Wales? FB is just the originator of massive fake news. Nobody seems to care, as long as they find stuff that supports their own opinion.

I think most people in the UK (and Ireland too) could draw those borders in roughly the right place.

Martina888 Tue 28-Nov-17 21:38:15
@somerville
passports will be checked when travelling to GB , this will stop the illegals

So a border in the Irish Sea then.

Whoya, you're really talking up this "Ireland on the brink of violence and chaos" theory of yours - violence at the drop of a pin, government collapse imminent...

Most people in N Ireland would not accept having to show a passport to travel to England, Scotland or Wales. Why should we not have free movement within the UK?

Martina888 Tue 28-Nov-17 21:40:13
ItsAllGoingToBeFine:
I'm saying we can have free movement between UK and ROI, but not between UK and EU - ie. Irish passport holders yes, others no

Martina, are you aware that when you say EU you are saying Ireland? Ireland is 100% in the EU. The border between NI and Ireland will be the EU border.

You keep on talking about the EU and Ireland as if they are separate entities. They are not.

And how do you decide who is an Irish passport holder and who is not? Do you ask that drivers with Irish passports enter a certain lane and they are waved through? Do you trust everyone in the waving through lane?

How do make sure that all people crossing over have Irish passports? Answer: passport inspection, car boot inspection, luggage inspection, ID verification, busloads of travelers all standing in lines outside their buses while officials go through their luggage and their papers. Families visiting granny in Strabane for Sunday lunch making sure they have all the necessary documents and having their car checked. Granny upset because lunch goes cold if there is heavy traffic for some reason.

This is a return to the pre 1993 border situation. There is no other way to do it.

My husband and I were just reminiscing the other day about how when we were kids you used to sit in a queue of traffic at a border checkpoint and if you were really lucky you might get the added excitement of bullets whizzing by as a sniper tried to take a shot at the army. Happy days indeed.

Julie
The EU has to take responsibility for creating a union that cannot cope with countries leaving
This is nonsense Julie.

The UK voluntarily signed the Good Friday Agreement, aka the Belfast Agreement. It is the irreconcilable contradictions between being a party to that agreement and leaving the EU that have caused the self inflicted mess for the UK.

Please explain to everyone on the thread how you see signing the GFA as the responsibility of the EU.

I recommend you do a bit of reading on the GFA's provisions as they relate to the position of NI in the EU, the jurisdiction of the ECHR and ECJ, and citizenship rights of NI residents.

It was GB that created the union that is causing the most trouble when it comes to leaving the EU, that is to say, the union between GB and NI, aka 'The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland'. Tell the DUP where to get off, dump NI, problem solved.

Julie
Its the legal immigrants we also voted to stop. And they can be deported when they come to the UK. We dont need a wall to do that.

The UK always had that right because it wasn't in the Schengen area. It just chose not to exercise it. See this link again.
fullfact.org/europe/border-security-eu/

Julie8008 Tue 28-Nov-17 21:58:52

• How do you propose taking control with no borders?

• [Bangs head against wall] By stopping mass immigration within the EU accessing our benefits, schools, hospitals, houses, etc all on the whim of the streets being paved with gold and moving here.

This could all have been done without a Brexit vote. The EU never stopped the UK from controlling its own welfare rules, housing access rules, etc., or the level of immigration from anywhere, including within the EU.

(The EU did not put a gun to any UK government's head and prevent it from spending more on housing or education or the NHS either, but that is another thread.)

The level of ignorance on all aspects of immigration and the general topic of the UK's power to set its own policy wrt welfare for immigrants while a member of the EU is gobsmacking. It is completely true that people get the government they deserve.

Julie - Did you vote Leave based on the incredibly mistaken assumptions you have posted here?

Julie8008 Tue 28-Nov-17 22:01:15

• It's working perfectly well now with no border at all
• Its really not, that is why a majority of voters want to leave.

(Apart altogether from the fact that the post you quote was about NI/Ireland working perfectly well...)

No, people voted to leave because they believed a crock of lies about how badly the EU was working. They believed the UK government couldn't control immigration from anywhere. They believed the UK government were prevented from controlling access to welfare, housing, etc. by the wicked EU. All lies.

Julie8008 Tue 28-Nov-17 23:01:37

• It's working perfectly for Ireland, until Brexit pissed on it
• so the UK should be run with regards to what works for the ROI, a foreign (albeit friendly) country?

LOL.

At the moment, thanks to Theresa May's gross political mismanagement and inability to make a single correct political decision, the UK is being run according to the whim of the Democratic Unionist Party, and it will be until someone calls a halt to the madness. Every single aspect of Brexit is held hostage by the DUP.

Is that how democracy works dear? (To paraphrase Martina from upthread.)

Just thinking out loud: I would love to conduct a poll asking how many people in Britain had heard of the DUP before Theresa May bribed them to back her in Westminster. I seem to recall a good few articles from that time on BBC online with titles like 'Who are the DUP?'.

Julie
How many people could draw the border between Scotland, England and Wales? FB is just the originator of massive fake news. Nobody seems to care, as long as they find stuff that supports their own opinion.

This ^^ with bells on.

Oh the irony.

How many people could draw the border between Scotland, England and Wales? FB is just the originator of massive fake news. Nobody seems to care, as long as they find stuff that supports their own opinion.

Is ignorance something to be proud of then? Or just a nice get-out clause for people who didn't bother thinking before the referendum and just blindly accepted whatever 'facts' were spewed at them and suited their agenda.
Did you hear the vitriol and stupidity spouted by some of the people on that video? That sort of shite being spouted and echoed by politicians and media talking boxes is escalating tensions.

If you want to know why people ever get radicalised, you could be seeing examples in action. The anti-irish sentiment is horrible and scary, my parents lived in England in the 70s and experienced it. More fool me for thinking that English people had moved on from That, instead of just hiding it for a few decades.

Take a bow, Mathanxiety 👏🏼👏🏼

How many people could draw the border between Scotland, England and Wales?

Surely every school child leaving primary should be able to draw the border between England Scotland and Wales? And know the difference between GB and the UK? How can you claim you have even a basic education when you don't know the boundaries of your own country ffs? That Channel 4 video is shameful but given the some of the shockingly ignorant posts on this thread, not surprising.

I'm saying we can have free movement between UK and ROI, but not between UK and EU - ie. Irish passport holders yes, others no

Ireland is the EU. It's a full part of the EU.

I heard Ian Duncan Smith on TV last night - he said the Irish government were taking a tough line because of the ‘ Irish Presidential election.’ - the ignorance is breathtaking

Unbelivable, these are the people in charge? It was a general election that was threatened, now not happening, and that had nothing whatsoever to do with it anyway. He's not even taking a hard line, just the bloody obvious position of "you wanted to leave, now you actually have to tell us what you mean to DO about it"!

Well he was told that the general election tion had been averted, but that might have meant changing his spiel so he grasped at the presidential election, which has zero political fallout. Gobshite.

The presidential election is a year away, even if it was in anyway relevant to Brexit, which it is not, its a whole 12 months in the future, it has nothing to do with now.
What a fucking twat. No wonder the people are so woefully ignorant if that is the level of knowledge of those in charge!!

If you want a deal that involves convergence with the EU, then you can kiss deals with everyone else goodbye

Why is that? most countries are capable of multi-tasking. Or is it just remainers that can only do one thing at a time?

WTO rules. You live in a wider world. Much as you would like to, UK can't just make up trade rules to suit itself and there are other countries you now have to interact with and rules you have to follow. Ever hear of the United Nations? You know there are a few conventions there you have signed up to that you mightn't much like.

Really, unless you want to be self sufficient and not trade with anyone else you will find there are rules you need to follow that you have little or no say in making.