Charlie Gard 13

[muckypup73]

This is a thread following the legal and ethical questions raised by the recent court case involving Charlie Gard.

Please could we refrain from insulting or otherwise "bashing" his parents. It isn't in the spirit of Mumsnet and will get the threads removed.

Please could we also remember that at the heart of this case is a terminally ill baby and his heartbroken parents. There are those participating in and watching this thread for whom these issues are painful. Please let's try and be mindful of them when we post. This isn't a place for name calling or trivialising the very real pain they feel. Many parents of severely disabled children are on here.

Lastly, here are some hopefully useful reference points of facts surrounding the case.

13 July GOSH position statement on latest hearing (includes update on Charlie's condition):
www.gosh.nhs.uk/file/23611/download?token=aTPZchww

7 July GOSH statement on Charlie:
www.gosh.nhs.uk/news/latest-press-releases/latest-statement-charlie-gard

June 2017 Supreme Court decision:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6rPmvGlNhA&app=desktop

May 2017 Court of Appeal Decision:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2017/410.html

April 2017 High Court Decision:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2017/972.html

GOSH FAQ page on Charlie:
www.gosh.nhs.uk/frequently-asked-questions-about-charlie-gard-court-case

But they certainly wouldn't have taken it well directly from GOSH either.

But if they were at the hospital today, instead of in court, they would have been taken aside and had the MRI news "Broken" to them by the HCPs

As they chose to be present in court instead, that didn't happen, because they weren't there

Couldn't giving C&C the MRI results have been done more privately than hearing about it for the first time in open court? Also my instant reaction to "evil" comment was exasperation but in context it seems so understandable.

I do wonder if GOSH could have managed this situation slightly better. No way of knowing how the complete breakdown in trust occurred, but just wondering here.

Now on CA it has been posted that the scans in January did not show catastrophic brain damage. Am not sure where that comes from but was posted by an admin.

TinselTwins you'd hope under any circumstances news like that would have been revealed to the parents in private, however much they want to see it. I'm not bashing GOSH here, I just feel from what's been said so far it seems unreasonable.

CA are not postulating that KG meant "sad reading" in that they show that Charlie is not brain damaged - and therefore it is "sad" for the hospital that they have been proved wrong. I have no words.

Actually x-posted with a number of people who've explained why MRI results being read out in court is not that unexpected either and shouldn't be interpreted as overly harsh. Ignore my earlier comment.

But they certainly wouldn't have taken it well directly from GOSH either

That's true, at this point it comes back to the stately homes comparison. In that there is no way at this point for the results to be broken to C&C without it resulting in an outburst and anger and upset. At this point the court just has to crack on.

How are CA going to respond to the MRI results as it throws everything they have believed so far out the window (he can see; he responds to tickles, etc)?

I hope they don't turn on C&C for "lying", as with many others I do believe their fight comes from a place of denial and dispair, not malice.

And that everything was based on GOSHs lies.

I do think that being given the latest results in court by GOSHs barrister seems unfortunate to say the least

They wlll say the MRI results are fake.

For all the ins and the outs and the rights and the wrongs of this case. I feel so sorry for Connie right now - that must have come as a blow.

I don't think anyone is to blame - C&C brought this right into the public domain and this happened as a result of that. But that does not mean that I do not have the utmost sympathy for Charlie's parents this afternoon, and for Charlie, and for the GOSH staff and the legal staff (and everyone else touched by this case).

Yes...i suppose if you look at it that way the facts had to be revealed to the judge today and the parents weren't at the hospital to hear them, and I guess it wasn't a surprise to anyone but the parents really. Still sad though.

TinselTwins you'd hope under any circumstances news like that would have been revealed to the parents in private, however much they want to see it. I'm not bashing GOSH here, I just feel from what's been said so far it seems unreasonable

It's highly likely that C&C are refusing to speak to Charlie's doctors, who would usually be the ones to discuss it privately. But A. they aren't speaking to them and B, they're not at the hospital for it to be an option. So I don't think you can blame GOSH for not engaging with someone who won't engage with them IYKWIM

I also wonder if the MRI news is really "news" to them anyway...

Now on CA it has been posted that the scans in January did not show catastrophic brain damage. Am not sure where that comes from but was posted by an admin.

This saga will not end with Charlie's passing. There is a high chance that the parents, rather than confront their grief, will pour their efforts into a civil action against the hospital.

I think they did an MRI yesterday (there are different types, some use contrast) I,m assuming that the results have been viewed and reported on by a specialist and taken to the court as they would form part of the evidence.

I really don't understand how it has got to this, I thought the meeting on Monday was to discuss the results of all the tests. Were some delayed for some reason?

Yes, C&C refused to consent to full brain testing, it had to go back to court, and the tests were carried out under court order, so some results werent ready for the MDT meeting

I don't understand how they couldn't have seen the scan. Surely they were there when it was done, his mother was were at the meeting discussing it, they must know what it says.

I'm not sure when the scan was carried out but if it was sent to a specialist neurologist (as Dr H requested) to be reported on then it may explain why they only got the results today as sometimes it can take a few days. They may have even wanted numerous reports on it from a variety of doctors so that C&C wouldn't be able to argue the findings if everyone had reported the same findings.

It is GOSH that brought the case back to court, not C and C

Gosh were threatened with judicial review if they did not.

Have to say, revealing the reports that way isn't covering Gollop in glory. She should have submitted it as evidence and offered for someone to go through it with them, since their lawyer would have access once it was submitted to the court.