In the shadow of Grenfell Tower- thread four

[RhythmAndStealth]

Rest in Peace

Isaac Shawo, 5
Khadija Saye, 24
Mohammed Alhalaji, 23

At least thirty people confirmed to have died

Six further deceased victims provisionally identified

Many more people feared to have died. They have yet to be reunited with their names

Nineteen people still in hospital, with ten in critical care

Many people homeless and dispossessed

Many bereaved

Many traumatised

“…it is difficult to escape a very sombre national mood.” The Queen.

Three investigations launched- Fire, Police and Public Inquiry
£5m Government Emergency Fund created
£3m donated by public
Peaceful protesters demand justice and answers.

Thread three (includes links to threads one and two)

I have read some people interviewed who are staying with friends. I would choose that over sleeping on a mattress in a public centre. I would only choose the mattress option if I had no other choice.

Wow! I did not know that about schools. I had assumed that they would be built to a very high standard of fire safety.

But yes, the council and police should be collating data on how many made it out.

Yes Belinda. We absolutely need to make sure the true numbers are revealed.

Interested to see what the upcoming police press conference has to say.

The school next to grenfell is clad in matching cladding

Are people worried that the true death toll will never be revealed?

I assumed many of the people sleeping in centres are those evacuated from nearby buildings, not mainly people who escaped from the tower.

This is shocking.

politicalscrapbook.net/2017/06/new-fire-minister-was-among-72-tory-landlords-who-voted-against-homes-fit-for-human-habitation/

I don't know Bratsy; I find the way the government is acting over this completely incomprehensible. It's as if they think that they can just do whatever they like and the rest of the country will just turn a blind eye, which I am hoping is not the case.

I absolutely understand why the families want to give testimony, but I thought an inquiry was aimed at determining cause of death?

So at the end of the inquests we find out: x number of people died from smoke inhalation; x number of people died from multiple injuries following a fall; in x number of cases it was impossible to determine the cause of death - I don't understand how knowing those bare figures, gets to the heart of the matter, which is the multiple, interlocking failures we've been discussing.

I've seen petitions going round calling for an inquest, but I don't think it is going to achieve what is needed.

This lists those unaccounted for that are known about

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/14/missing-victims-grenfell-tower-fire

Sorry first line should read:

I thought an inquest was aimed at determining cause of death.

More than 1000 people outside Downing Street.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2017/jun/17/grenfell-tower-fire-theresa-may-under-pressure-as-anger-grows-live

Word "coward" is being used a lot apparently.

An inquest determines cause of death, and has participation by the bereaved, their lawyers and expert witnesses.

An inquest can deliver verdicts like manslaughter.

AN official inquiry doesn't have to involve the bereaved at all, or allow in their appointed experts.

I don't think a large number have been interviewed by the media.

Those people who are staying with friends have nothing. They will have to get in touch with the authorities to register for housing if nothing else so it should be possible to gauge how many people survived. I just think its strange that an estimate has not been given. I also find it strange that those survivors have not presented at hospital with smoke inhalation or burns.

Young girl, a volunteer, on the BBC talking about storing the donations that haven't been passed on yet.

There's no way someone that young should be having to shoulder that much responsibility at a time like this.

Looks like she and other volunteers are desperately trying to fill a big vacuum.

"Are people worried that the true death toll will never be revealed?"

No, too many different people working on it for there to be a cover up.

I do think the true figure might never be known, though. And we are unlikely to get any figure at all until the Fire Service can access the building. With the reports that they have shut nearby tube lines again today because the building is unstable, I can see why it's likely to take weeks.

They've clarified the tube line closures Meditrina. It is not because the building is unstable. It is because debris from the building could fall on the line.

I worried about that too, I thought it would be horrendous if the building collapsed before they could retrieve the bodies and also before the fire investigation was conducted.

The hospital staff said the same after Hillsborough. That they were watching on the news and set up ready for a major incident response expecting large numbers of injured to come in but received a tiny amount of people. Because most of them were dead and because (in that case) ambulances weren't allowed onto the grounds.

Former firefighter talking about how exhausting and traumatic this is for firefighters. How they do really intensive training, but nothing could prepare them for that.

I remember the Kings Cross fire and one person was unidentifed until relatively recently, but everyone else was accounted for. The work of the fire service and forensic specialists is amazing, it must be heartbreaking job, but such an important one.
We all need to be mindful of anything else going on which some politicians who like to keep under cover. Remember that certain people use huge events like this to cover up bad news, it has been tried before.

Thanks rhythm

If this had happened anywhere else the Red Cross, and Red Crescent would be there, but who has the power to ask them to get involved, I wonder?

Inquest verdicts aren't that simple, and they don't stick to the clinical cause of death. The Hillsborough inquest was what found that the victims had been unlawfully killed. Inquest juries can give narrative verdicts, and one would expect them to for a case like this.