In the shadow of Grenfell Tower- thread four

[RhythmAndStealth]

Rest in Peace

Isaac Shawo, 5
Khadija Saye, 24
Mohammed Alhalaji, 23

At least thirty people confirmed to have died

Six further deceased victims provisionally identified

Many more people feared to have died. They have yet to be reunited with their names

Nineteen people still in hospital, with ten in critical care

Many people homeless and dispossessed

Many bereaved

Many traumatised

“…it is difficult to escape a very sombre national mood.” The Queen.

Three investigations launched- Fire, Police and Public Inquiry
£5m Government Emergency Fund created
£3m donated by public
Peaceful protesters demand justice and answers.

Thread three (includes links to threads one and two)

Yes, agreed.

It still doesn't tell us how many people are safe.

Is Nachmany a landlord with empty properties?

If so, then yes I am surprised they received no reply at all (assuming of course they've sent the offer to the right office - something that it sounds as if it might be difficult to ascertain, but larger landlords who have properties that meet initial stanfpdards for an emergency placement probably have some idea who's who in the council)

He didn't mention 342.

Hmmm it's still very woolly

So 6 identified deceased
58 missing presumed dead
342 who have been found and are alive

If that is the position, it's miraculous, given what I feared on Wednesday morning. I hope it is true, and we will see in due course.

I also hope the families get an inquest, and as quickly as possible once the evidence is available.

Where is this 342 number coming from?

Ok ignore that.

I think that they feel there are now less than 400 missing?

I got it from the poster above. But if they say their initial list was 400+ and it's now 58, they must have eliminated at least 342 from that list.

The reason it is so confusing is because they've had to work from multiple information sources.

They have focused on people they were told were in Grenfell Tower. And they have worked on finding out if those people were actually in there.

Having worked though that, they are left with 58 people they haven't accounted for. That is 58 people from the people they were told were in the tower. They have 58 people for whom they haven't found an explanation other than them being dead (e.g. Safe, injured, not actually there, duplicate identities). It is possible that number may decrease, if anyone comes forward who hadn't yet reported themselves to the police. He appealed for people to do so, whatever the reason they might have for not coming forward so far.

I think they have also had sight of 30 bodies. They have moved 16 of those to the morgue.

There may also be people who perished in the tower who have not been reported to them. So that is why they may find more bodies as they conduct a more detailed search. But based on the people they have been told about already, they are looking to find the people who haven't already been found.

I think it's from an assumed total in the building of 400. But I've heard differing figures (much higher, up to 600) of how many people lived there, and the bottom line is, we probably will never know how many there were. And that's before you take into account visitors, minus people who could have been out at work/away.

"they must have eliminated at least 342 from that list."

I hope so. I hope that is not 342 people who's bodies we are not going to find.

There were 400 plus missing reports.

At one point it was reported that 47 of those were for one person. We do not know if the 400 referred to in the police speech includes multiple reports of people, or if it 400 individual people (as rhythm pointed out, not disagreeing with her).

Before his speech, I don't think it was announced that there were 400 reports, so I'm not going to be relieved about a number I didn't know about.

We have no idea how those 400 relates to the number of residents in the tower, or have a report of how residents have definitely been accounted for.

Sorry, to go on. I'm getting too involved and this is getting convoluted like Chinese whispers.

The Beeb reports it as 58 missing presumed dead (an increase from previous reported 30) and that police expect this figure to rise.

BBC also says it understands there are about 70 missing, but they don't specify if that overlaps with the 58.

This article from the Guardian covers the issues of the ppl living around Grenfell Tower as well as those who were living in the tower.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/16/where-are-we-going-to-live-grenfell-tower-locals-face-uncertain-future

1. They don't know for sure how many people were in there

1. They have been told about c400 people.

1. Of those c400 people, they are not looking in the wreckage for a large number of them, because they are either safe, injured, where never even there even though someone thought they were and reported it, or they found out that their were duplicates in the original set of people they were looking for.

1. Of that original set of people, 58 are unaccounted for. They are dead, or missing presumed dead.

1. They have 30 confirmed dead i.e. 30 bodies. 16 bodies have been recovered and moved to the morgue.

1. They may find more people in the building, people no one has yet reported to the police.

That's the best sense I can make of it.

I don't believe for a minute there's only 58 fatalities

Sadly neither do I

'1. They don't know for sure how many people were in there

1. They have been told about c400 people.'

Did he actually say that?

I thought he said they had 400 reported missing. That is absolutely not the same thing as a statement of how many people lived there.

70 was the pre-announcement number that all the networks seem to have gone for.

they received thousands of calls, but multiples relating to the same people. So once they collated and sorted them the thousands of calls related to around 400 people.

Of that list, there's 58 who they haven't found safe (I'm including in hospital as safe) and so are presuming to be dead.

To be clear, I thought he was talking about how many missing reports or missing people have been filed by the public.

That is not the same thing at all as, say, a list from the housing association of how many residents they have listed as being in that building.

I just cannot get my head around this. The council must produce a list of the residents they knew lift in the tower. Then the police get the names of all known survivors and cross them off the list. Then the number of poor people still in comas and unidentified in hospital are taken off the tally.

The remaining number is the number of dead. They are not missing - they are dead and the authorities need to stop fobbing everyone off with this missing nonsense.

This should have been figured out by now.

400 to 600 residents

58 fatalities* 65 saved by firefighters 78 hospitalised

201

*Of the 58 figure he gave, the Met commander said that 30 people were confirmed dead, while 16 bodies have been recovered from the Tower and taken to a mortuary. (source: Guardian)
The remaining 12 are missing presumed dead.

that leaves 200-400 residents/guests/subletters, some of whom might not have reported themselves safe, some might have been out or away, some might have no next of kin to speak for them/report them as missing.
110 households were to be rehoused but that includes evacuated households from nearby blocks.

To achieve what is put forward in the article i have linked to make sure people are housed as locally as possible the benefit cap (the limited amount that can be spent on HB) would have to be waived. (damn right IMO) the residents living in the places around the tower are also still sleeping on community floors due to the tower not being safe and possibly prone to collapse. Even if they could go back there is the issue there may not be any (hot) water. The communal boiler which supplies them is in the basement of Glenfell Tower.

Monkey I think those people have been accounted for in some positive way (even if it's just erroneous multiple reports). So it's not the case that those people will be bodies that are never found. They have been accounted for.

But there could still be people we never know about. Because no-one has yet reported them missing and no-one ever reports them missing and no remains are ever found (sadly turned to ashes).

It's also possible, that of the 58 people who are dead, or missing presumed dead, some of those bodies are never recovered because they are sadly turned to ashes by the fire.

They may also find that some of the bodies they find are people who haven't been reported to them.

God this is horrific. Bodies turned to ashes.