In the shadow of Grenfell Tower- thread four

[RhythmAndStealth]

Rest in Peace

Isaac Shawo, 5
Khadija Saye, 24
Mohammed Alhalaji, 23

At least thirty people confirmed to have died

Six further deceased victims provisionally identified

Many more people feared to have died. They have yet to be reunited with their names

Nineteen people still in hospital, with ten in critical care

Many people homeless and dispossessed

Many bereaved

Many traumatised

“…it is difficult to escape a very sombre national mood.” The Queen.

Three investigations launched- Fire, Police and Public Inquiry
£5m Government Emergency Fund created
£3m donated by public
Peaceful protesters demand justice and answers.

Thread three (includes links to threads one and two)

I think if the council were actually coordinating efforts, then of course other work goes on. But to not do their job in helping residents made homeless by the fire, but still find time to hand deliver threatening letters, is awful.

A public enquiry is bigger, with far more resources available to investigate all the contributing factors and - most importantly - to make recommendations to avoid a repeat elsewhere

A public enquiry can produce more information and publish it more fully

I can't see that it matters how close the blocks were to Grenfell. The council had plenty of other things to worry about than hand delivering letters to, I assume, hundreds of properties. Ball games ffs. Really?

I don't know. I am suspicious that a public enquiry is just another way to cover up blame.

Of course there will be inquests soon too, but I'd expect those to be adjourned until more information is available

There is a report on a fire in Melbourne in Australia where an identical cladding was used. Fire started on a balcony and spread very quickly but was held in check by a sprinkler system that performed very well indeed, they do say it over performed!.

There were pictures of fire extinguishers that were unreachable as people had stacked their clobber in cupboards all over them and some smoke detectors were covered up by the residents:(

also.

I expect that somewhere in an office that was specifying the cladding for Grenfell tower it went like;

Can we use this Polyethylene version its a few quid a channel less over the mineral wool one?.

Well the regulations say we can, its approved it meets the regs. OK then and seeing we have to reduce costs as its way over what they want to pay if we're going the stand a chance of getting this job we'll have to make costs and economies somewhere. OK then lets go for that.

Umm, noticed in the specs it says that it can't be used over 22 odd meters height in some counties?.

Not our concern mate!, it meets the regs here so its OK then. OK all done then, put its use in the quote.

end off.

There won't automatically be an official inquest with a jury. That's what people are calling for.

The letters were probably already produced and probably were outsourced for reliever. Yes they should probably have stopped them going out but I imagine there's a lot to deal with just now.

Remember the council also has many different departments, I worked in the call centre for one and if something like this happened all we'd have been able to do is carry on and if possible give the advice we'd been psssed by other depts.

Is there anywhere that gives a tally of survivors? I keep seeing this dj ilya (sp) videos on my fb newsfeed who claims that for all the generous donations, none of it has been collected by survivors but I'm wondering if it's more because we all thought there would be hundreds of survivors and in actual fact there aren't that many :/

I have read the council blaming residents as apparently some voted against a sprinkler system, because it prolonged the refurbishment. Is that true?
Even if it is, the council are still to blame.

How many people do you thing got out? I don't think there was that many.

Why have these people not made themselves known? Who is looking after them? Where are they?

The worry with public enquiry is that they usually take so much time, being so thorough.
So, governments can use them to take years, until public anger, even public memory, has faded

e.g. The Bloody Sunday enquiry took umpteen years and cost hundreds of millions. Although the relatives of the victims obviously still didn't forgive or forget, much of the public did.

We must keep the pressure up, so that charges of Corporate Manslaughter and / or Misconduct in Public Office are made if appropriate, then if found guilty that the punishments are not just a slap on the wrist

Exactly monicabling. All the food and clothes are still there as nobody need it because they are all dead.

Omg just seen independent head line. Man jailed for 3 months for posting PIC of dead body from fire on Fb. Wtf!

That victim-blaming was from a Tory councilor who has been told to retract it, as a inaccurate smear

Anyway, the Tory govt voted down a Labour amendment that would have made sprinklers mandatory for highrises - making sprinklers a legal requirement avoids dodgy politicians and businesses claiming say that residents agreed to a deliberately misleading question, or didn't even read it

It was an inquest that gave the Hillsborough families the answers and closure they needed. I think an inquest would be appropriate here.

I read a Dr in a hospital saying they set up to receive and treat lots of smoke inhalation victims. And that sadly they received far less patients than they had expected. Presumably because they are dead.

Residents usually get allowed to choose the paint colour, at most
No way they'd genuinely be allowed to choose about major refurbishment

The fire service were able to search up to the 12th floor during the fire, and couldn't get everyone out from the floors up to the 12th. It seems likely most of the people in the top half of the building have not survived.

Thanks bigchocfrenzy I had wondered where it came from.

They did this very quickly! Can't believe it.they really are hiding something.

Right Belinda, I can just about wrap my head around the fact they can't speculate how many are dead but I can't understand why they can't say how many are safe (not in hospital). It's all so terribly unsettling and I understand why the people affected are protesting. People aren't mushrooms, you can't keep them in the dark. :/

How many people do you thing got out? I don't think there was that many. Why have these people not made themselves known? Who is looking after them? Where are they?

They're not hiding - a large number have been interviewed by the media. Many won't have wanted to give interviews (and they don't need to account for themselves in public), but there are sufficient accounts of people escaping that it could be quite a lot of people. I saw early articles saying that fire services had rescued 60-70. Others got out under their own steam.

I'm very far away from this, not affected aside from feeling awful for these people and I want to know the figures. How must those directly affected and their families feel right now about how little is being released?

We need to protest, to stop similar tragedies, like this:

The Fire Brigade's Union warned of dangers in 2016 after the government voted that sprinkler systems should no longer be compulsory in new school buildings
So that's lowering safety in schools !

https://www.fbu.org.uk/blog/government%E2%80%99s-ruthless-decision-school-sprinklers-huge-mistake#.WUTZ0pykMYA.twitter