Grenfell Tower fire- thread three

[RhythmAndStealth]

Seventeen tragic deaths confirmed so far, six victims provisionally identified.
Number of those who perished feared to rise into triple figures as search proceeds
Search for remaining victims expected to take weeks, sadly it’s considered unlikely that it will be possible to identify all the victims
Names of those still missing start to emerge
Nearly 80 victims being treated across six hospitals, with 15 still in critical care
Hundreds of people displaced and dispossessed, concerned about when and where they will be rehoused

Public inquiry ordered.
Criminal investigation launched.
Serious questions being asked about fire safety regulations, management of social housing, austerity and inequality.
Fire Brigade search of building expected to take weeks due to complexity of building, extent of fire damage and the necessity of undertaking a painstaking fingertip search.

“There must be arrests after this monstrous crime” David Lammy MP

‘Families rehoused last night been left clueless about where to spend next nights. No word from #kccouncil. Chaos.” Emily Maitlis, BBC

“We have to act as if it was our friends, our family in that block” Nick Hurd MP, Policing and Fire Minister

“Someone needs to be held accountable. These deaths could have been prevented.” Local resident to Sadiq Khan

Thread 2
Thread 1

Would sprinklers have made a huge difference? The outer shell was effectively coated in petroleum.

I think regular fire drills are paramount. At work they happen every few months and within the first few days of joing you have to have a fire tour and once a year we do comprehensive training

StatisticallyChallenged Where are you getting that information from please? I was under the impression, and it has been reported, that most floors were now four bedroom flats, some converted during the refurbishment and others converted by the leaseholders at other times.

Regardless, still more complex then a single hotel room.

I simply do not understand the council's seeming lack of doing anything. Every council has a major incident plan. It isn't without bumps and glitches, but it should sweep into place.

Council services have been cut to the bone under austerity. This is what austerity looks like. We've got used to the safety net being there as it has been for so long. It's being cut away, bit by bit.

IdontTrusther To claim that Momentum and "anarchists" are encouraging violence is ridiculous, and crass to the extreme. Have some respect for these people.

Apparently 170 people were on the phone to the fire service and told to stay inside. I can't imagine how horrendous the dispatch ers feel giving what was following rules the right advice, but ultimately

I do hope all the fire service have access to mental help, honestly I can't even imagine

To claim that Momentum and "anarchists" are encouraging violence is ridiculous, and crass to the extreme

Have I done that?

Have I said they are down there encouraging violence, I said I hope they don't and whats crass is jumping on tragedy actually and using it for their own aims.

Just like they did in Calais when they did incite a riot and storming of the port. That's crass and thats extreme.

According to the council documents I posted earlier, it would appear there were 120 1 and 2 bed flats (of which 12 were leasehold, assume rest HA?) and 9 additional new 'hidden homes", including some 4 beds, in the basement built as part of the regeneration.

Minutes of the Housing and Property Scrutiny Committee of Kensington council can be found here: www.rbkc.gov.uk/committees/Committees/CommitteesFrom2013Onwards.aspx

That was based on the info in the planning application for the work done

Apparently 170 people were on the phone to the fire service and told to stay inside.

Source please.

Sorry, this is starting to get out of hand.

There IS a problem with the lack of information and how it is coming out, but saying stuff like this is certainly not helping either.

I think regular fire drills are paramount.

^ again in such a block and with one stair case its mind boggling they didnt already

I have seen certain social media accounts which should be acting more responsibly as community leaders stirring the already angry up.

That is irresponsible. Whether it is a deliberate thing to stir violence I perhaps doubt, but I do think its grossly irresponsible given who is doing it.

brexit, we won't know exactly what would have worked until after the public enquiry. This is likely to be years. In the mean time, ensuring current housing stock is up to current building regulations doesn't seem unreasonable.

As for sprinklers specifically, they are part of building regulations for all new build tower blocks over 30m (as this one is) and the government were advised to urge councils to retrofit them in the report after the Lakanal House fire. While we wait for final recommendations after this tower block fire, perhaps we should start to legislate for the recommendations from the previous one.

*Source please.

Sorry, this is starting to get out of hand. *

A firefighter interviewed on sky news that was there on the night. Sorry I should have said that. They are repeating it regularly

They may have wedged a few extra in; the planning application says 4 and 3, but the actual floorplan submission shows 1 three bed and 6 four beds

The other floors (20 of them) contained two 1 bed flats and four 2 bed flats

Fireman on Sky news now.

We know that the Fire Service rescued about 70.

We also don't know how many of these calls were duplicated. That is entirely possible and likely.

Bear that in mind.

The figure the BBC are giving of about 70 missing / dead in addition to the 70 rescued doesn't sound like its downplaying it hugely in that context.

I am generally cynical of these things and these events. What has happened is utterly outrageous but we do need to try and temper things and calm the situation.

There are huge racial and social scandals caught in this, we need to focus anger not lash out blindly or it will make a bad situation worse and more people will end up hurt.

That's the last thing anyone should want.

Brexit, fire service counsellors in the area were cut from eight (iirc, it may have been more than that) to two. Think it was Dany Cotton who said this in an interview, back on Wednesday

I don't imagine the rest of the UK has fared much better either.

"Apparently 170 people were on the phone to the fire service and told to stay inside"

This was stated by a member of the LFB who was the fire for the people above trying say it is shit.

I agree with the comment that community leaders, and some celebrities, and social media influencers appear to be trying to stir things up.

I personal feel that at this point community leaders need to work (dare I say it) together to keep the calm tonight and avoid riots. I understand people are very angry, very emotional and very upset, but I think people need to think about the devastating consequences that can stem from rioting. It tears communities apart in the long term, and causes a lot of damage in the short, and intermediate, timescales.

I also feel quite strongly that people need to consider the impact that unrest would have on the emergency services. They have had to deal with two major incidents in less then two weeks, are still all on high alert due to the recent terrorist attacks and the current stated threat, and have already been working extended hours, and additional on-call rotations.

Great post lala

IdontTrusther Everyone can read what you said and it was ridiculous, unfounded speculation showing to score an equally ridiculous political point. Just think before you post.

Apologies, that should read some before community leaders, celebrities and social media influencers - not just before celebrities.

This just showing the mentality of some councillors:

twitter.com/MartinBelam/status/875775166059618308?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fuk-news%2Flive%2F2017%2Fjun%2F16%2Fgrenfell-tower-fire-london-police-criminal-investigation-into-tragedy-latest-updates

regular fire drills are paramount

This doesn't work in a lot of places. One of the big problems with communal fire alarms is that the more false / non emergency alarms, the less people take them seriously. If your fire alarm when off for an unknown reason once in the last 5 years you take it seriously. If it goes off once a week because your neighbours burn toast you wouldn't realistically evacuate every time.

In addition, in a block like this the stairwell may not big enough to evacuate everyone at once. That may be part of the reason why the 'stay put' advice is in often place.

Fire drills are very effective in office-type work places, and schools. But in lots of places they are ineffective.

caveat I haven't done the calculations on this building for what width of stairwell would be needed.