Grenfell Tower fire- thread three

[RhythmAndStealth]

Seventeen tragic deaths confirmed so far, six victims provisionally identified.
Number of those who perished feared to rise into triple figures as search proceeds
Search for remaining victims expected to take weeks, sadly it’s considered unlikely that it will be possible to identify all the victims
Names of those still missing start to emerge
Nearly 80 victims being treated across six hospitals, with 15 still in critical care
Hundreds of people displaced and dispossessed, concerned about when and where they will be rehoused

Public inquiry ordered.
Criminal investigation launched.
Serious questions being asked about fire safety regulations, management of social housing, austerity and inequality.
Fire Brigade search of building expected to take weeks due to complexity of building, extent of fire damage and the necessity of undertaking a painstaking fingertip search.

“There must be arrests after this monstrous crime” David Lammy MP

‘Families rehoused last night been left clueless about where to spend next nights. No word from #kccouncil. Chaos.” Emily Maitlis, BBC

“We have to act as if it was our friends, our family in that block” Nick Hurd MP, Policing and Fire Minister

“Someone needs to be held accountable. These deaths could have been prevented.” Local resident to Sadiq Khan

Thread 2
Thread 1

Guardian article by a firefighter on the threat posed by cuts

GardenGeek with what authority can you say the cladding was not prioritised for aesthetic reasons?

Do you know for sure that there was no element of prioritising the needs of property developers of the posh blocks over the needs of the Grenfell residents?

Please show me your evidence?

Not got any? Then with due respect, STFU.

Divide and conquor is the tactic the right wing press and politicians have used in this country for years to distract people from the effects of their economic and social policy by blaming everything on migrants/refugees/single mothers/benefit scroungers or whatever bogeyman they can get the public to swallow.

What is NOT divide and rule is asking legitimate questions about the council's priorities when £9million was spent on a refurb but the lift not fixed, a proper fire system not installed, an extra staircase not created.

The residents are ALL saying there was an issue with their estate being seen as an eyesore in an otherwise rich area.

Part of the problem here was that residents' concerns were dismissed.

So if you're dismissing their concerns yet again - you must have actual evidence for it, surely?

So - let's see it then?

Just been reading about a the poor little girl Jessica crying for her mummy down the phone when she was trapped in her flat, alone. That just doesn't bare thinking about.
. Her mum was on her way home from work. This was at 1.39am. Now I'm sorry but something is not right with the government Expecting lone parents to go out to work late at night. Thus leaving a child in a vulnerable situation is shocking.
This force lone parents out to work regardless of family circumstances and lack of adequate care, needs seriously looking at. Because I'll assume she (Jessicas poor mum) didn't have anyone to help with childcare
. It should be a law that lone parents cannot or should not have to work nights.

Cutting councillors is surely such a massive false economy too- firefighters more likely to leave due to trauma so you have to constantly train new folk. Idiots

Rhythm they are being expected to work far too many hours

We have one of the best fire services in the world. And they treat them like this.

YY sleeping in no way can residents perceptions or thoughts be dismissed or diminished - haven't these people had enough of this over the years?

From the Guardian

Scotland Yard launches criminal inquiry

Police have opened a criminal investigation into the tower block fire that has killed at least 17 people. A Scotland Yard spokeswoman said: “We have appointed a senior investigating officer.”

Police have said they are not yet in a position to define how the investigation will be carried out and what, specifically, will be its focus. But they said they hope to release more details soon.

Great, let's hope the public enquiry gets dropped in favour of inquests.

Let's be honest, by the time the 20 years for the PI to be heard and official report issued - all culpable will most probably be dead.

The lawyer for the 2009 Lakenhall fire victims has just said on news night that the residents/victims of Grenfell Tower must demand an immediate INQUEST and must reject public enquiry which is government led, will exclude the victims & their families from asking the questions & calling witnesses & seeks an outcome for government interests.
An INQUEST is led by the interests of the victims and families, they ask the questions, they
can cross examine and call their own witnesses. Remember Hillsborough, the 30 year extension of the grief & suffering of the families.

I emails the advertised council contact to offer emergency accommodation to a family and got an automatic reply saying accommodation was in hand and no further offers needed. So why are families still homeless and sleeping on floors then??

Why is the relief effort largely being left to volunteers??

This is a large scale humanitarian crisis in a major capital city, with hundreds of severely traumatised survivors and witnesses and it's being handled by volunteers in church halls and mosques.

Babyspider, You're making a lot of assumptions there. Regarding Jessica, it's been quite widely reported that whilst her mother was indeed working (a night shift), her father was down on the 3rd floor, visiting a friend. He was not able/allowed to get back up to help her escape.

GardenGeek which bit do you not understand?

You said To make this about the rich community wanting a prettier building to look at is the divide and conquer straw man argument they want us to be having.

Don't fall for it.

This is a statement that goes against what the residents are saying.

So - where is your evidence for this?

Oh full apologies. I didn't know that.

Photograph from inside a flat in Grenfell Tower, taken on Thursday

thatdearoctopus,
Omg,please say she was rescued.

PLEASE READ THIS. I posted this on threads on here a couple of years ago but couldnt find the old threads so had to hunt for it again.

This is about a tower block refurb that took place in Salford 3 to 4 years ago Just take a look at the way tenants were treated. THIS is EXACTLY the sort of thing tenants have been trying to be heard about for YEARS.

salfordstar.com/article.asp?id=2560

Garden, a journalist who lives in the borough was on Sky News and also said that the borough building control generally is obsessed with what things look like. She is not a resident of the building but just said that of the borough generally so it does seem possible, indeed likely - I was also asking about that on the old thread.

More details here re. Salford tower block refurb.

salfordstar.com/article.asp?id=2390

And more here.

salfordstar.com/article.asp?id=2405

Garden "You cant bring a corporate manslaughter charge to 'the rich'"

what?! no one suggested that.

"You cant bring legislation in to stop people improving aesthetics of buildings. "

actually if it's a total waste of funds that could be used elsewhere to sort out safety matters, why not? If I own my home it's mostly up to me to decide if it needs an extra coat of paint. But no one should be worrying about what essential social housing looks like because it doesn't fit in with all the local pretty.

Helena, I will Tweet those links in the morning when my followers are awake. Good night

And according to this the materials used in the refurb from hell are similar to Grenfell.

salfordstar.com/article.asp?id=3937#36699