Grenfell Tower fire- thread three

[RhythmAndStealth]

Seventeen tragic deaths confirmed so far, six victims provisionally identified.
Number of those who perished feared to rise into triple figures as search proceeds
Search for remaining victims expected to take weeks, sadly it’s considered unlikely that it will be possible to identify all the victims
Names of those still missing start to emerge
Nearly 80 victims being treated across six hospitals, with 15 still in critical care
Hundreds of people displaced and dispossessed, concerned about when and where they will be rehoused

Public inquiry ordered.
Criminal investigation launched.
Serious questions being asked about fire safety regulations, management of social housing, austerity and inequality.
Fire Brigade search of building expected to take weeks due to complexity of building, extent of fire damage and the necessity of undertaking a painstaking fingertip search.

“There must be arrests after this monstrous crime” David Lammy MP

‘Families rehoused last night been left clueless about where to spend next nights. No word from #kccouncil. Chaos.” Emily Maitlis, BBC

“We have to act as if it was our friends, our family in that block” Nick Hurd MP, Policing and Fire Minister

“Someone needs to be held accountable. These deaths could have been prevented.” Local resident to Sadiq Khan

Thread 2
Thread 1

I got a reply from my (Tory) MP. I asked him about safety measures and about the social divisions in our country. He gave assurances about safety and has said he has asked the fire brigade in our area to make checks in every tall building so that is good.

He also said, regarding social division, that we must 'pull together, not divide', which is utter nonsense - we are already divided.

These people have no idea.

From my most recent link.

"While there has been no official word on what caused the horrific blaze at Grenfell Tower in London this week, experts seem to be agreeing that the cladding certainly contributed to the speed in which the fire spread, with tragic results.

In Salford, the majority of tower blocks have been re-clad, with the most visible example being the high rises along the Crecent, including Thorn Court, Spruce Court, Whitebeam Court and Malthus Court.

Here, all the hype surrounding the refurbishments has been about appearance rather than tenant safety…

"The design has been developed to provide colour and interest at key focal points" stated Pendleton Together "...The rationale for the treatment of Spruce and Thorn is based on the use of the same highly robust and crisply detailed cladding panel, but using two different shades of colour."

Urgent safety checks taking place

gardengeek Surely the job of planners is also to plan things that are reasonably safe too. I'm sure when they are planning, they also take safety into consideration.

We can do both. Can't we?

Plus it's not just about fire safety standards, although those are important and must be improved, it's also about a lack of due care towards residents and a lack of power for residents. There should be a proper complaints procedure tenants can go through to get things looked at. And yes some tenants will abuse it, and yes they will be a nuisance but you can't throw them all under the bus just because of a few annoying people.

IT IS IMPORTANT to tackle inequality because this runs through so many things. It's Grenfell, it's Lakanal House, it's Rochdale, (and the others), it's the London riots, it's Hillsborough, it's Aberfan. Working class people are not believed time and time again, their complaints are not taken seriously, their needs are not taken care of.

Yes, our anger should go to inequality, because people have been burned alive, because nobody cares that housing for poor people is poorly maintained, nobody cares that it is often overcrowded, nobody cares that safety is neglected, and when money was put into regenerating those buildings, they did not go towards safety features, they did not go towards improving living standards for residents (even the heating system which was supposed to benefit residents was questioned, and these questions were ignored). The regeneration money was largely put into panels which improved the appearance of the building. The regeneration not only compromised existing safety measures but it actually made the building dangerous.

These buildings were built to regulations, regulations which would have saved many lives if they had been properly maintained and hadn't been compromised.

Regulation is useful and you're right that it's an achievable goal but inequality is SO FAR REACHING. And it harms.

Ive said many many times that classism is a huge problem in this country HUGE.

Helena, is one of these the tower blocks where many LGBT people were housed?

Also Salford. Tower block fire risk ignored and yet the same company told tenants they couldnt charge mobility scooters due to fire risk

www.salfordstar.com/article.asp?id=1897

Im not sure Sylvia.

Here is the mobility scooter article.

www.salfordstar.com/article.asp?id=3588

GardenGeek I agree - this is not a party political issue. The focus on evil rich people, or even the Tories TOTALLY misses the point (especially in a borough which just voted Labour - plenty of those rich people must have voted against their own interests in solidarity with their neighbours and the response to the tragedy has been incredible). It isn't the fault of the rich or the Tories; lack of either proper investment in social housing or action to address the growing housing crisis has been a recurring theme for decades.

I agree that a focus on legislation and regulation is good, but the problem is partly political trend - the trend for privatisation by stealth, embraced wholeheartedly by the Blair government, has been very destructive. It shouldn't be possible for a council to contract services out to a private company, when the obligation to provide those services rests with the council. There is no incentive for the private company to do anything other than the bare minimum for the maximum profit, as if anything goes wrong it is the council that cops it, not the contractor. In fact, as has happened here, often by the time problems are discovered the contractor has gone bust or exists in a different form.

Essential services - housing, health, energy, transport - should NEVER be privatised. If you want to legislate for that, great, but I think you will need to convince everyone of the philosophy first. Profit is not the most important driver for essential services, or shouldn't be, and don't get me started on the farce of energy regulation designed to mimic the competition that categorically doesn't exist.

After all, what is the point of government, to engineer a country that works well for its citizens, or to make a country profitable for the interests of the few?

Oops... sorry that was so long.

I should add, social housing is not popular and it SHOULD be. That alone is a big battle well worth fighting.

kiwi Even though I totally agree with what you're saying, I just don't see how it is possible to put the genie back in the bottle now, as regards privatisation. The government is never going to buy back all those contracts.

Not this government anyway. A Jeremy Corbyn-led government might.

There were a set of tower blocks in Salford, and about ten years ago they had big sets of lettering stuck on the top of them, saying, 'the cathedral fills my window,' or 'I can see Wales from here.'

Is it those blocks that have been 'refurbished?'

Sorry to ask irrelevant questions that you may not know the answer to. I'm just trying to work out if it's the ones I think it is.

Whitebeam Court and Spruce Court. According to the earlier links ive put in this thread it was the refurb from hell Im not from there.......i came across the earlier articles by chance a couple of years ago and tonight they popped into my head again .

The articles on how they ignored their own fire risk assesment yet said tenants couldnt charge mobility scooters due to the fire risk shows the mentality towards tenants at work here. Its the "we know better than you because you are just tenants" mentality.

Despite the fact that they ignore their own fire risk assessment. Despite the fact there are Shopmobility scooters charging in stores overnight and shops would not take that risk if this held water.

YES The legislation itself needs a complete overhaul.

Ive just left a local fb group due to the racist classist comments about the residents of Glenfell Tower.

Absolutely disgusted with the comments on there. And the blaming of the fire on the tenants.

helena that's horrible.

bigyellow and gardengeek its right that public contracts should be offered by competitive tender, to avoid corruption and get the best value, but lots should never be put out to tender at all and those that are should be assessed in a more three-dimensional way in terms of value offered over time to the end user, not simply on price.

No real "market" for the work you want done on a regular basis? Pay someone a decent rate to do it in house. Serious liability attaching to the work you want done? Accept the responsibility for doing it properly and train someone appropriately and pay them a decent rate to do it in house.

The demons here are: (1) short-termism, i.e. saving money now by getting a crap job done cheaply and to hell with the consequences because it'll be a different government/ council/ person in your job when they arise; and (2) falsely equating cost-cutting with efficiency. Yes, contracting out means you don't have to pay public sector wages and benefits, but it comes a whole host of hidden costs.

God, I'd love to get my grubby little lefty paws on the whole damn system. O, the social housing I would build! #istillbelieve #fightforchange

helena good example of how public discourse distracts people from the real issues (poverty, inequality, lack of political will to address issues affecting the poor) with scare stories (immigrants taking your jobs/homes/chicken dinners)

kiwi you're preaching to the converted. I just don't know how it's possible, realistically, to deprivatise the UK.