Wheelchair Vs Buggy

[Twinning546]

I've just been reading about Doug Paulley being successful in the supreme court regarding pushchairs having to move for a wheelchair user. How does this work practically if there isn't any space to move to and you've already paid for your journey? Considering I travel with a large double pram with twins under 1 I can't just fold it up and sit with a child on my lap so I'd have to get off the bus.

Keeping the peace is a waste of resources? It isn't.

Besides you do it a few times and word spreads that being mouthy and entitled about your buggy trumping disabled access won't work on buses any more.

It is the law though isn't it?

By law you have to vacate the space for a wheelchair user.

But the police won't be interested? How is that upholding the law?

No brag they don't keep the wheelchair space vacant they just chuck standing customers off when a wheelchair user wants to get on

It's not criminal law soubriquet, the police don't get involved in civil matters

I'm pretty sure refusing to get off or move in a bus and causing the driver to take the bus out of service would be regarded as a breach of the peace and is criminal.

Manu- I meant the police could be used to keep the peace if it kicks off. That is a waste of resources as you'd hope normal people could accept a wheelchair on a bus without breeching the peace but who knows

Is not Olympia. I have been on hundreds of buses the driver takes out of service for bad behaviour. They do it every day and manage without needing the police

I would hope that other passengers would speak up/offer to help collapse pram etc to help to

So what happens if your on with a disability pushchair and not a normal one.
Because my son for one wouldn't be able to come out of his disability pushchair it is his wheelchair?

Disability pushchairs are treated as wheelchairs. Because really that's what they are!

I'm not trying to catch anyone out here; I'm genuinely asking about the "then the bus is over capacity":

Don't buses still have a sign saying "Capcity: total, seated, standing ?" ? On the basis that UK buses don't resemble Indian trains, there must be a limit, and it must be applied ?

Presumably whatever that limit is, it accounts for a wheelchair passenger in the wheelchair space, with people standing.

But, if people want something to chew on ...

Suppose the bus did have a free space for a wheelchair, but the bus driver decides there is no room for a carer ?

Passengers with Buggies would be much easier to get off a bus than standing passengers. How would they decide who? And when the bus is it a breaking point even giving out the next journey ticket would take five minutes to get to the people near the exit

So what happens if your on with a disability pushchair and not a normal one.
Because my son for one wouldn't be able to come out of his disability pushchair it is his wheelchair?
I'm sure any reasonable person would recognise that pushchair as equivalent to a wheelchair.

Ah thanks for clearing that bit up.

Wow I've seen a new low with an excuse.

"I pay for your free bus pass. When you start paying you can have an opinion but until then shut up"

Buses do they have that sign but they frequently break the limit and the driver's know they have.

For £20 you can get a cheap folding buggy. Dressed in a warm all in one a baby should be fine for the odd shopping trip and a sling makes it even easier. I did this and it works well.

There really is no need to keep telling everyone how to dress and transport their children.

For two years I had three preschoolers a monster buggy and only a tiny hopper bus ran between my house and town.

I walked every day and got very fit pushing everyone.

The idea that a sling solves everything or a folding buggy solves everything is missing the point. Families come in different shapes and sizes. There's not enough room on buses for multiple wheeled conveyances so SOME parents with multiple children or lots of shopping are going to have to walk.

Nobody ever suggests that for some reason.

But I'm sure everyone is quite capable of sorting out their own buggy/sling/clothing/transport combination.

Usually they only submit as one standing passenger to one whellchair but in reality many whellchair's spaces fit 2-3 standing passenger's.
Might be easier to ban buggies during peak hours like how all bycless are banned on trains during certain hours.

"Suppose the bus did have a free space for a wheelchair, but the bus driver decides there is no room for a carer ?"

That's up to the driver. You'll have to accept they're not perfect

Not sure how this is going to work practically ...

"There is a wheelchair wishing to board. Please would you fold your buggy".

"No, I cannot, it contains my baby and a week's shopping."

"I am requiring you to fold your buggy, else I will ask you to leave the bus."

"No. I bought a ticket same as the other people."

"Please leave the bus, I will not move this bus whilst you are on it and refusing to fold your buggy."

"No" (followed by a string of swear words)

Cue lots of annoyed noises from the other passengers who only want the bus to get moving again.

The ruling really doesn't help the bus companies, it puts more pressure onto the drivers to be persuasive when asking the buggy user to consider the disabled person who also wishes to travel.

In the meantime, I'm off to find some "please treat as wheelchair" stickers for my son's disability buggy ...

I'm sure a disability pushchair or major buggy counts as a wheelchair one

I am laughing my arse off at all the "but.... but...." crew, I really am.

Because I've had a bloody gutful these past 18 months of such sayings as "you wanted equality, 'ave it" when I myself spent the first few years of my own kids' lives folding the double buggy habitually because you couldn't guarantee it'd be a bus with without steps anyway and even if it was a level access bus the right thing to do is to fold. My two were 14 months apart in age, DS1 didn't walk when DS2 was born so I found solutions to the problem that didn't prevent disabled people accessing the bus. I wasn't alone in doing that, most mums did too.

Then DS2 and DD needed to use wheelchairs. DS2 fortunately now doesn't need to but I do, and the whole time it's been getting harder and harder dealing with militant parents who won't fold. Who push in front to get in the lift meaning my child has a toilet accident because they can't be arsed to use the stairs. Gaggles of giggling teenage girls taking over the disabled loo for some kind of fashion show when I needed the loo.

Now the bloody trains saying they can't guarantee disabled people the right to board.....

It is so bloody frustrating going through life with people not having the slightest comprehension of how necessary the disability adjustments made on transport, loos etc are to enable us to live a normal life. How it feels like the biggest fuck you ever when someone can't do a small thing which will be a minor inconvenience to them for a couple of minutes to them to enable you to live a normal life when most things are a major inconvenience to you every day because.... disability, you know?

How the hate crimes and snide remarks towards disabled people have increased 2010 and impacted on my mental health and feelings of self worth....

So yes, today I am jubilant and I won't apologise to anyone upset by that. I bothered my arse when I was in your shoes, why can't you?

There is still a very long way to go with improvements to make disabled people's lives easier, this is small stuff and a big thing at the same time.

Eggy it's been described how it's going to work practically

Eggy if completing your journey is a gamble on no wheelchair user boarding then you're buying a ticket at your own risk. It's not hard to understand

Train's are much harder to run. The commuter i one i get on would never fit a wheelchair at peak time and unlike busses train's cant be delayed for minutes to get passengers off without delaying further train's.

Spot on bishop

Small steps in the right direction, but at the same time it does highlight just how many people are so absorbed in their own bubble they can't see the impact their behaviour has on others.