Wheelchair Vs Buggy

[Twinning546]

I've just been reading about Doug Paulley being successful in the supreme court regarding pushchairs having to move for a wheelchair user. How does this work practically if there isn't any space to move to and you've already paid for your journey? Considering I travel with a large double pram with twins under 1 I can't just fold it up and sit with a child on my lap so I'd have to get off the bus.

[Qwertie]

It seems awful that this pits wheelchair users against people alone with young children. Why can bus companies provide a bigger area of the bus with fold down seats?

[Bragadocia]

I wonder how many of the people on that Facebook thread have ever actually been required to get off a bus for a wheelchair user. We didn't have a car until last summer, and it only happened once in DS' childhood that we had to fold - because the space was already occupied by two pushchairs. It can't happen that often.

[11122aa]

I wonder through if London Bus companies would give out the ticket journey or because of hour cap make the next bus a new journey.

[Manumission]

It's not pitting anyone against anyone.

Parents have lots more options available to them. Wheelchair users don't.

[BishopBrennansArse]

All that is needed is an on board supervisor and a ramp, actually.
If I have a London hospital appointment at 10am then I need to be getting the 8.30, so I do.
Disabled people have deadlines and important stuff going on too, and we pay for our ticket so we'll ride, thanks.

[Sirzy]

If parents want more spaces on buses then they are free to start a campaign to get it!

[Trainspotting1984]

They used to give you a replacement ticket 111, or generally you just explain to the driver of the next bus

[11122aa]

Buses would do away with seats if they could but that would be a pr nightmare.

[sherbetpips]

The sad thing is that what should happen if you are a mum with twins and a buggy is that other bus users would help you so the babies are safe and the buggy folded away, the same when you get off the bus. However everyone is more likely to turn the other cheek. The mum with a buggy should get off the bus not least of all because buggies and babies are for a short time, a disability is for a lifetime.

[11122aa]

What train's have an on board supervisor. No commuter metro style services do. Even with a suprvisor getting commuter's of a train if it ram packed ( which signals delays) would take forver. Everyone would claim the other has a better claim to leave.

[Manumission]

Coaches and trains are actually much easier to use than buses when you have a double buggy.

Stowing a buggy in a coach gold, there are staff to help. At station steps someone alwaya stops to lift a pushchair.

[11122aa]

In London explaing to the next driver is hopeless. The other week the bus i was on was terminated just after where we get off. Problem was the bus behind had gone in front so everyone changing over probably had to wait the full ten minutes not the straight walk over we were told when the change was announced.

[Qwertie]

It is though; it's creating a very negative stereotype of mothers (let's face it) taking their small children out of the house. I'm lucky to have a car, but I would feel extremely unwelcome and conspicuous on a bus today. Why can't the solution be more flexible seating on buses rather than mothers have to get off. It reminds me a bit of that war time poster "housewives, don't travel after 4pm!"
I totally understand that at the moment it can lead to an unacceptable situation for a wheelchair user, but why scapegoat another "type" of passenger?

[SapphireBird]

This is why I drive everywhere.

[Trainspotting1984]

Someone is booked in to assist the wheelchair though aren't they? You tell them in advance you're coming and they meet you. There are plenty of stations where they wouldn't be there just in case.

My buggy didn't fold down so other people helping wouldn't be any good but I would certainly help someone else.

[Sirzy]

Trains locally are fantastic. Every coach has a wheelchair space (clearly signed as first priority wheelchairs but prams can use them when not needed by a wheelchair). Even at busy times that is enforced.

I have only had issue on a local train once when a man refused to move his bike but the conductor soon made him move it.

Not surprisingly apparently the same company have just come top in a customer satisfaction survey,

[Trainspotting1984]

I think buses have a bad rep anyway to be fair. We moved from London to the Home Counties recently and buses are for poor people here. It's the old Maggie thatcher "if you're taking the bus at 30 you're a failure"
Mentality

[11122aa]

London Busses tend to hae more flexable seating ( wheelchair passengers are quite rare even more so during rush hour). When a person gets on with the Buggy the older passengers do tut and mention the olden day's of fold up or walk.

[SapphireBird]

What Qwerty said.

[Megatherium]

.. woman gets out of wheelchair in to a seat and the carer then folds it!!!

So ? People use wheelchairs for many different reasons.

Lurking, I think the point was that this wheelchair took the only available wheelchair space, leaving another wheelchair user waiting for the next bus, and it then turned out that she didn't actually need the space after all - if she had said so, the second wheelchair user could have boarded.

[IcaMorgan]

There's one idiot on that link saying that if the wheelchair user was being pushed by someone they shouldn't be allowed on if buggies on but otherwise they should

[Manumission]

It is though; it's creating a very negative stereotype of mothers (let's face it) taking their small children out of the house. I'm lucky to have a car, but I would feel extremely unwelcome and conspicuous on a bus today.
Why? It's only people refusing to move that are the problem. Not ALL mothers.

[PurpleDaisies]

qwertie did you read the Facebook thread that soubriquet linked to earlier? The stereotype exists because some parents think the fact they procreated means they're more important than someone who had no other option but to stay seated in their wheelchair.

I'm sure the vast majority of parents aren't like that but this ruling reinforces the fact that someone in a wheelchair has more right to be in the wheelchair space than someone who isn't. It's bloody sad it ever came to this. Parents should fold their buggies or get off the bus. If you know you'll be using the bus a lot, make sure you buy one that folds.

[PurpleDaisies]

And for what it's worth, I wouldn't think negatively at all of any mother/father who got on a bus with a pushchair...until they refused to fold or move for a wheelchair.

[11122aa]

Ill still be surprised if a London Bus ever tries to evict standing passengers during Peak Time. You never get anyone to volunteer to get off and a driver cant leave his cab. TFL must be aware they always breaking the capacity rules.