Farage speaks at Trump rally

[HPFA]

This:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37177938

I hadn't actually thought that Nigel Farage could go lower in my estimation. But have to admit I was wrong...

I think this thread is about Farage not UKIP

You are very entitled to your opinion about his ideology not being one of a fascist. I'm afraid I and many other would not agree. I would be very interested to know who all these left wing fascists are. Are they within the right wing media? Should we get them all out? Do you see the parallel?

We live in a democracy where people are free to believe and in general discuss what they like (with reason ie not incitement or anything contravening our laws). If people don't feel that the bile Farage spews is palatable to them they have a right to comment as such. That doesn't make them fascist - that really is the wrong use of the word

I didn't think it could get worse listening to Trumps nazi rantings.

I was wrong

The fascists are the ones who want to shut down debate, silence any political discussion they don't like

Yes, and they usually accomplish that by spouting soundbites, lying and blaming vulnerable groups for things they are not responsible for.
Ring any bells?

To be fair, fascists are not pure right wings. They are on a class of their own, borrowing the worst from the left and from the right.

Also, surferjet, you seem so politically astute, yet, you haven't been able to explain what you wanted from Brexit on other threads. You're the one who wanted Brexit NOW (with a petition and all) not thinking of all the work involved in deciding how it's going to happen.
Your smugness is not making you come across as knowledgeable at all.

I'm not smug at all, there's lots I don't know & I fully admit that.
I'm taking a break from the Brexit threads because a few of the remainers over there are so dogmatic I honestly think they need counselling. You just can't have a proper conversation with them.

Can someone just explain to me how Farage and Trump can be described as not establishment? With their backgrounds, families, education and career paths they look like pure establishment to me. I'm not looking for a debate on this but an explanation of why people think they're not.

someone actually said on here that they were sorry he didn't die in that plane crash he had

No, they didn't.

I'm taking a break from the Brexit threads because a few of the remainers over there are so dogmatic I honestly think they need counselling. You just can't have a proper conversation with them.

Such a pain when they produce silly little things like evidence and logic, isn't it?

Trump isn't part and never has been part of the political establishment and neither have any of his family this works for him

All this anti establishment is just spin for doing things differently but not really that differently as in the case of Corbyn this week

Its caught on and woven in to the retoric of the ordinary people can be given power at a time where they are in both countries a growing divide between those that have and those that have not or have very little

For Trump he is up against a political family the wife of an ex president and that for many is questionable, would she be in this positions of it wasn't for her husband while he has had to work from the bottom to be where he is (well not really when you are born into a very wealthy family) and it plays into the belief America being the country of the free, you can be anything you want if you work hard even the President of the United States that many Americans love

For Farage it's pure spin he broke away from the Tories that's about it so have many others. UKIP were outsiders but then so were the Green Party but it sounds good

And then there is Corbyn again fighting against the establishment for the ordinary people

What's interesting is all three men have come from very privileged backgrounds, have never lived the ordinary lives of the people they fight for and have had closer ties to those in the establishment than many ever will yet they know what is best for the ordinary person

Also Trump and Farage are somewhat entertaining which certainly helps conceal their nasty agendas

Surfer should look up the definition of fascism

"Trump finds anti-establishment ally in Brexit's Farage"
'Can someone just explain to me how Farage and Trump can be described as not establishment?'

Because their background, or Corbyn's bacground, is irrelevant. They are all anti -establishment because they oppose the establishment on most of what it wants done and most of the establishment's core beliefs (apart from Corbyn who believes in manmade climate change).

www.yahoo.com/news/trump-finds-anti-establishment-ally-brexits-farage-043817954.html

"Farage tells Trump rally Brexit a win for anti-establishment"

www.scotsman.com/news/farage-tells-trump-rally-brexit-a-win-for-anti-establishment-1-4212591

The Establishment is the cognoscenti who determine the narrative and the policies and spread them via the media. As Corbyn said, he intends to break their "magic circle" so that the people have a say.

"The principle of democracy has to be ground up.

It is about breaking open this magical circle of Westminster, some of our great universities, Whitehall and the boardrooms who try to control thinking, control ideas and control the way policy is developed.

– Jeremy Corbyn"

www.itv.com/news/update/2016-08-21/corbyn-calls-for-westminster-magic-circle-to-be-broken/

That is why the Oxbridge teams don't want Corbyn in, because they will no longer be able to control the thinking and the narrative.

Corbyn scares the Establishment, but Trump positively terrifies them, because he doesn''t even go along with their climate change thinking.

A Trump victory will overturn everything they have worked for.

The Establishment didn't want Brexit, they were desperate to remain in the EU. Farage led the movement that ultimately beat them and that is what Trump admires about Farage, how he defeated the Establishment, which is why he was invited to speak at a Trump rally by Trump, who calls himself "Mr Brexit" because he believes he will defeat the Establishment the same way that Farage did with Brexit.

For Trump he is up against a political family the wife of an ex president and that for many is questionable, would she be in this positions of it wasn't for her husband

:) Do you think Bill would have been President without Hillary?

If politics, and certainly American politics, weren't so male biased, I suspect she'd have been given first choice over him.

Women in Congress are at about 20%. 96th in the world. The level of Asia and, ahem, Arab states (in the lower house).
Half of Nordic states.

www.ipu.org/wmn-e/world.htm

If anyone is self made are the Clintons. Not Trump.

You just can't have a proper conversation with them.

True, you can't. A conversation would need arguments, facts, reasonable argumentation.

Why is their background irrelevant when someone like David Cameron's is not

They want it to be irrelevant but it isn't because many see them as being once again part of be privileged few knowing what is best for those ordinary folk

Corbyn is even now claiming he isn't rich. Earning over 100k a year is rich for the vast majority of the ordinary people

Farage will have a pint with you down the pub, not sure what Trump will do to prove himself to be a man of the people

Farage led the movement that ultimately beat them

And now he's fucked off because he has no idea what to do with Brexit.

He just wanted it. Somehow it reminds me of surferjet.

I don't doubt that she is the driving force at all Lweji

Being the wife of an ex
President doesn't work in her favour all the time.

'Why is their background irrelevant when someone like David Cameron's is not'

Because David Cameron does what the Establishment wants and they don't which is why all the press call Trump and Farage and even Corbyn (though less so for him because he is a climate change type) anti-establishment. If Cameron espoused the same policies as Trump, it would be an absolute miracle firstly, and then he would be anti-establishment even though he went to Eton. But Cameron would never follow Trump's policies because the Establishment doesn't like them.

No, it doesn't.

But, sadly, it does seem to be what it takes (there's talk of Michelle as well).

'not sure what Trump will do to prove himself to be a man of the people'

He just has to continue with the populist policies that thrashed the Establishment Republican candidates like Jeb Bush, and that the people flock to in rallies of tens of thousands. No onc cares how rich he is, all they care about is what he will do to the Establishment when he wins.

The establishment being ....

Big banks, the BBC, that magic circle of men that spin lies

Ask voters what the establishment means answers will differ

Many want to fight against it

'And now he's fucked off because he has no idea what to do with Brexit. '

No, in interviews in the States, where Farage is revered for beating the Establishment, Farage has said he will be back if Brexit is thwarted. Farage realises that the Establishment and its media (the BBC, Channel 4 and all the rest of the mainstream) want to depict him as a bogeyman in order to foll the people, so he has voluntarily stepped down and got out of the way so that the "political class" can deliver the people's will i.e. Brexit without the Establishment making Farage the story.

But he has said that if the Establishment don't deliver the people's will, then he will be back.

'If politics, and certainly American politics, weren't so male biased, I suspect she'd have been given first choice over him. '

No because Hillary is unpopular among young millenial women, who mainly voted for Bernie. Hillary does not have the political skills that Bill had in being able to charm crowds and make them laugh and win them over. Hillary lost to Obama because he is a far better speaker and performer and is far more emapthetic than Hillary. Hillary has the highest disapproval rating of any candidate apart from Trump.

Hillary is a competent politician and a wonk, but she doesnt have the ability to make crowds like her, even among Democrats.

To become President is one hell of a task and it takes a lot of different qualities and Hillary has far fewer of those qualitie than Bill or Obama.