Farage speaks at Trump rally

[HPFA]

This:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37177938

I hadn't actually thought that Nigel Farage could go lower in my estimation. But have to admit I was wrong...

The 'alt right' Breitbart crowd that Trump and Farage are courting are not anti-establishment Rebels standing up for the little man. They are white supremacist, woman hating thugs.

In fact, Owen Jones has written a whole book about it and has still missed the whole point, so you have to wonder if he gets it at all or if some Momentum supporters are right to wonder about his lack of full support for Corbyn.

Craig, is Corbyn yet another in the pantheon of people of whom in your view the establishment is afraid?

'is Corbyn yet another in the pantheon of people of whom in your view the establishment is afraid?'

Of course, but much less so than Trump because Corbyn is a manmade climate change believer and was pro Remain etc, so he will not upset the Establishment's applecart to the same extent that "Mr Brexit", Trump, will do.

Thanks Claig, but it was you that posted the Owen Jones link in response to the question of what you mean by the Establishment.

So would you like to have another try at giving us a definition? Or is it a case of The Establishment means The Establishment?

The Mirror is reporting what former BBC Newsnight reporter, Paul Mason, has said

'Labour shadow ministers resigned 'because they feared Jeremy Corbyn would win general election'

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/labour-shadow-ministers-resigned-because-8722027

And Blair, hero to the Blairites, himself said

"Tony Blair says he wouldn’t want a left-wing Labour party to win an election

The former PM says he wouldn't take the 'route to victory' if it was left-wing"

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tony-blair-says-he-wouldn-t-want-a-left-wing-labour-party-to-win-an-election-10406928.html

The Establishment doesn't want Corbyn to win because he will change lots of things and hit the rich and powerful. He said he will "break the magic circle". He will upset their applecart, but it will be nothing in comparison to what Trump will do to the Establishment.

'but it was you that posted the Owen Jones link in response to the question of what you mean by the Establishment. '

I only posted Jones, whom I think hasn't got a clue, because most posters like him and the Guardian and he at least acknowledges that there is an Establishment unlike so many other people.

So, let me ask this again. How are you defining The Establishment?

I answered the question earlier in the thread and will repost it

What is the establishment to you claig?'

It is the rich elite who control the narrative, the ideas, the media narrative and the Overton window of policy. It is the agreed consensus of a clique of out of touch insiders who rule over millions and millions of ordinary people by spin, money, media influence and lobbyists.

Corbyn put it well, which is why they don't like him.

"The principle of democracy has to be ground up.

It is about breaking open this magical circle of Westminster, some of our great universities, Whitehall and the boardrooms who try to control thinking, control ideas and control the way policy is developed.

– Jeremy Corbyn"

And yet so many of your "anti-establishment" heroes are themselves the rich elites, while others (or other - Corbyn) stand for something entirely different.

To be honest, one could go through all of your posts and replace every instance of "The Establishment" with "My Arse" and it would be marginally more meaningful,

(In fact I recommend that to anyone frustrated by this thread - it instantly becomes approximately 10,000% more entertaining.)

Maybe the term the Magic Circle will take over from the establishment

'And yet so many of your "anti-establishment" heroes are themselves the rich elites, while others (or other - Corbyn) stand for something entirely different.'

Yes because that doesn't matter. On this point, Owen Jones was correct in his entire book on the subject where he implies that it is not who you knw, it is what you believe that makes you a part of the club.

Trump, Farage and Corbyn (even though he believes some things that the Establishment believe e.g. manmade climate change and Remain) all challenge the Establishment by their beliefs which oppose the Blairite etc consensus. That is why they are anti-establishment. They all want to overturn many of the Establishment's policies. That is what the Establishment are scared of, not how much money they each have in the bank.

It's just bullshit and you know it.

'It's just bullshit and you know it.'

I already said that Owen Jones's book called '"The Establishment: And How They Get Away With It ' was bullshit because he had missed the point of what the Establishment is, but all credit to Jones for trying to understand the issue.

So what you you think "the Establishment" want, if Owen Jones is wrong and it's not about small state /pared back welfare provision?

What exactly is this "consensus"?

You just said that what I have tried to explain could better be summed up as "My Arse", so I feel like it would be a waste of time to try and explain it. Owen Jones believes there is an Establishment, but in my opinion doesn't undetand what it is, and you clearly think it is all just "My Arse", so there is not much room for intelligent debate on it.

I am not sure anyone knows what it is meant to mean when it is used by the right and far left of politics and those firmly in what many would see as being part of he establishment are also fighting the establishment

It is all political spin to win voters over how easy fight the invisible then all will be fine and don't worry about real policies and how they can be implemented they are of no real importance

Pull the other one, claig. Don't go all special snowflake on us now after all your hard work.

Go on, give it a go. What do The Establishment want?

'It is all political spin to win voters over how easy fight the invisible then all will be fine and don't worry about real policies and how they can be implemented they are of no real importance'

It is not, it is fundamental to what is happening in world politics and in UK politics. it explains Brexit and the rise of UKIP which has now been dwarfed by the revolution that is the rise of Corbyn. The BBC now have to discuss it, even if they continue to sneer, they can't escape the truth and conceal it because Momentum and millions of people are tweeting about it and discussing it and they are losing credibility if they try to deny its existence. Open any newspaper, inclusing the Financail Time and even the Establishment's favourite, the Guardian, and it will be all over the political pages, because that is the reality that everyone now understans and that is what is changing world politics as Davos panic and fear Trump and the rise of populism against the elites, which includes Corbyn and Momentum too.

Everything is being overturned as the mainstrea media slowly loses influence and credibility and as twitter and blogs and new independent online sites and newspapers take milliosn of readers aaway from the mainstream. BBC Newsnight had Kerry=anne Mendoza on TV the other night. They have to because they know they can't mainatin credibility with the same ol Establishment faces any more.

'Go on, give it a go. What do The Establishment want?'

Reread the thread and try replacing the "My Arse" which you inserted at all the key junctures and it will become clear.

So you have no explanation?

What do your Establishment want?

'So you have no explanation?'

Of course I have an explanation, I'm not Owen Jones.

And yet when asked for an explanation earlier you referred us to Owen Jones. Interesting.