Why is everyone in the public crazy about Jesus Corbyn/Corbyn Wan Kenobi?

[BeckerLleytonNever]

I mean, WTF? He has disciples (as one journalist observed).

Ive totally gone off Alec Guiness now as all JC -(even the initials!!!!) needs is a long brown cloak with a hood like a bloody Jedi master.

And hell be walking on water next!

What is it about him that has thousands signing up for Labour membership?

I WAS a Labour member but because of him Ive left .

genuine question, what influence is he having, to make him followed like a deity?

Do you really believe a man who has had close links with terrorists will ever become PM

He will be absolutely trashed leading up to a general election

I don't think the majority of people will buy into Corbyn fighting against the establishment (or care that much) being middle class, privately educated and having led a privileged life that has allowed him to never have a job outside politics (some would say a real job) goes against him even when he wears his Lenin cap he doesn't quite cut it

People will vote for a leader that they feel can lead the country and they feel confident that will put our safety first that is not Corbyn's approach

I rarely hear anyone harping on about the establishment other than Corbyn supporters the conspiracy nicely whipped up by his or team

So maybe 350,000 Labour Party members support Corbyn

That isn't enough to turn the Labour Party into the governing party

The true support showed in the local elections, the worse result for an opposition party in over 30 years

'People will vote for a leader that they feel can lead the country and they feel confident that will put our safety first that is not Corbyn's approach '

I am not sure the scares about safety work any more, just as they didn't with the Brexit WWIII end of Western civilization line.

'I rarely hear anyone harping on about the establishment other than Corbyn supporters'

The BBC and the media do as they understand that Trump, Sanders, Corbyn, Farage, Brexit are all different manifestations of an anti-establishment mood of the public. The public no longer believe the Establishment spin, the scares about WWIII and the end of Western Civilization if we don't vote as the Establishment and Goldman Sachs want us to.

'The true support showed in the local elections'

Because half of the 172 were on TV undermining Corbyn, all the old Blairite and Brownite professional spinners were on TV slagging him off and the BBC were busy interviewing them all and had hardly any Corbyn supporters on to balance it out.

Corbyn has some whacky policies because as Owen Smith said about hiself "I am not the finished article" and that apllies to Corbyn too. If the 172 packed it in and started supporting Corbyn, they could all back his left wing policies and come up with a united front to oppose the Tories rather than getting standing ovations from the Tories when they oppose Corbyn.

well, on top of the labour members, im sure he has sizeable support from Labour voters too. Sizeable enough that without them, again Labour has no hope of getting into government. So i guess Labour are at an impasse. Should they ignore their own members and go with the minority who managed to fuck it up last time despite Torys being total cunts or should they try something different?

Well isn't the BBC and the majority of the media part of the establishment ....

There was certianly a rebellion against the government during brexit (which Corbyn wasn't part of though he might as well have been) but coming down to who you want to see lead the county people won't take that risk and certainly not with someone who has had the connections Corbyn has

Thankfully support for Trump seems to be waning too

Brexit was more complex than a general election and it wasn't about David Cameron or the leader of any party

but coming down to who you want to see lead the county people won't take that risk yh im sure the scot lab mps stuck to that crib sheet too whilst shoving their fingers in their ears

Corbyn will scrap tuition fees, improve education and lifelong learning, nationalise rail and maybe the Royal Mail again, build more houses, invest in infrastructure, improve the NHS, provide better care for the elderly, support unions, increase public sector pay, tax rich corporations and hedge funds, avoid entangleent in immoral wars.

Even the middle class might say "what's not to like?" with that. Tom Watson will probably say that the public are good people but they are having their arms twisted by Trots, which the Tories will give him a stading ovation for, but the public might say "we're being screwed by the Establishment's stooges" and if they are against Corbyn, we will be for him.

It's ridiculous to argue that 170 diverse, elected MPs are all wrong - they are hardly all right wing, "establishment" types!

Labour is hampered by its reliance on party members to select a leader and seeming lack of candidates who will be acceptable to left wing party members and appeal to the (more right wing) UK electorate.

Anyone can say they will "improve" things: how?

Renationalising things and paying for better further and fee-free higher education costs £££. NHS costs will continue to escalate due to demographic factors, new treatments etc. Where will the money come from post brexit?

I don't remember any labour mp's saying that people shouldn't vote for labour in the local election people didn't vote for them as they have Jo confidence in the party because of the way it's being lead and the rise of the far left.

People don't want to get behind him (as he hasn't wanted to get behind any labour leader since becoming an MP which seems rather an odd position to be in, pays you a nice salary though) becuaus they don't agree with how he does politics. They do not see how his proposals can be put into action (as the only response is a rise in tax) and they are unimpressed by his lack of leadership and disagree with his views

If they did agree with his way of doing politics and his left wing views I am sure many would have joined the Socialist Labour Party beforehand and not be in the Labour Party

No we shouldn't ignore Labour Party members but this might lead to a split. The UK will never vote in a far left Labour Party regardless who is leading the party

'Anyone can say they will "improve" things: how? '

We are the fifth or six largest economy in the world, we are full of talent and money, and Corbyn will redistribute it from the rich employers of people like Blair to invest it for the public good, for education and health, so that the potential of the people can be realised. All the waste, all the fiddling of expenses, all the stooges, all the wars will be reined in so that money can be spent on the common good.

'Where will the money come from post brexit?'

Increase in corporation tax, wealth tax on people like Blair, scrap exemptions for some of these phoney charidees, make the BBC earn advertising revenue to cut their grants etc

'I don't remember any labour mp's saying that people shouldn't vote for labour in the local election'

Some of the 172 were talking Corbyn's chances down in comments to their mates in the press who were all busy taking swipes at Corbyn non-stop as their bosses told them to.

'he hasn't wanted to get behind any labour leader since becoming an MP'

But it is precisely that that has made Corbyn so popular. The public don't like the old guard, no one has much respect for them. In fact they are a laughing stock as they try their coups and most of the public (including non Labour voters) are rooting for Corbyn.

'they are unimpressed by his lack of leadership and disagree with his views'

This leadership talk is just BBC nd Westminster Bubble 172 talking points. No one in the public cares whether he puts his feet up on his desk and reads the Morning Star all day long as long as the policies are left wing and opposite to the 172's.

'If they did agree with his way of doing politics and his left wing views I am sure many would have joined the Socialist Labour Party beforehand and not be in the Labour Party '

No because they still had hope in Labour, but now they have had enough of stooges. They want power and to win an election, so the Socialist Party is no use, but they now believe that Corbyn can deliver left wing policies via Labour now that he has defeated the Establishhment wing of Labour.

'The UK will never vote in a far left Labour Party regardless who is leading the party'

Cameron and the team, and the BBC, and the Establishment never thought the people would defy them and vote for Brexit, but we did and I think they could all be in for another shock and could vote for Corbyn if he offers good policies that meet the needs and aspirations of the people.

The problem seems to be timing.

New Labour contested the last GE, lost, but secured 172 seats, many of which are held by 'new Labour' MPs.

The party then held a leadership election, through which they dropped the 'new labour' principles and returned to their traditional roots.
But, they're stuck with lots of MPs who were voted in on the New Labour ticket - their campaigns and manifestos would have been "new labour" in type. That's what people voted for.

So, either the MPs have to ignore the mandate they were given when they were elected, change their position to be more left and "join" the Corbynites, or they have to distance themselves from the emerging, left wing Labour Party, in order to represent the people who elected them based on their new labour association and principles.

Despite the low public opinion of MPs, I do think most backbenchers take the responsibility they have to represent their electorate as they said they would very seriously. But they are also loyal to the party. Throw In the fact that the new leader isn't particularly good at the job or easy to work with, and It's no wonder there have been tears and distress amongst many of the MPs over the last few months - this is a situation they could never have envisaged being in.

'their campaigns and manifestos would have been "new labour" in type. That's what people voted for. '

Most people don't look at the details, they vote Labour, not New Labour.
Just as most Tory voters don't agree with half of teh stuff the Tories do, they just think they are better than the other lot.

'So, either the MPs have to ignore the mandate they were given'

They seem to do that when it suits them, so why not now, given that the majority of paying Labour members want them to back Corbyn.

'in order to represent the people who elected them based on their new labour association and principles. '

Most of the time, Blair and his ilk tell us that their gift is that they lead, not follow the public. They let the traditional Labour voters in the North down, which is why they are turning to UKIP, because the Establishment Labour MPs carried out metropolitan elite policies rather than working class ones. When it suits us they say they represent us, but we all know they represent the donors and the City.

'Throw In the fact that the new leader isn't particularly good at the job or easy to work with'

They are adults, they don't need Corbyn to hold their hand or pat them on the back. They should get on with their jobs and stop sniping at Corbyn's alleged "lack of leadership" while they undermine him to the press and the BBC both off and on the record.

'It's no wonder there have been tears and distress amongst many of the MPs over the last few months'

They are adults, if they are not up to the job, they should let someone else do it. Is Corbyn in tears with the constant pressure and undermining of nobodies saying he has no "leadership skills"?

Without their relatively large number of Scottish Mps, do Labour actually ever stand a chance of getting enough seats to form a government? All this talk of Corbyn never being prime minister is a bit tosh if the reality is that without Scottish Mps no Labour MP, centre, left or otherwise is ever gonna make prime minister.

claig I have a higher opinion both of the electorate, who I do not believe vote as blindly as you think they do, and of MPs, who I think (on the whole) are less mercenary than you give them credit for.

Jo Cox was one of those MPs. Someone who was took her job seriously, someone who truly believed in representing her constituents. There were many others. "New Labour" encouraged ordinary people to stand as MPs, not just career politicians. Those ordinary people are now embroiled in a political nightmare, the likes of which they could never have predicted.

They are adults, they don't need Corbyn to hold their hand or pat them on the back. They should get on with their jobs
The political events of the last few months have been unprecedented. Books will be written, examination curriculums set, endless analysis carried out. It is not unreasonable for any MP, particularly an inexperienced one, to look to their seniors for support, advice and reassurance. If they don't get that, then why should they trust those leaders, and give them their support?

'Those ordinary people are now embroiled in a political nightmare, the likes of which they could never have predicted. '

Because they are out of tune with Labour members, and I believe the people as a whole, despite their claims that they are more popular than Corbyn.

'particularly an inexperienced one, to look to their seniors for support, advice and reassurance. If they don't get that, then why should they trust those leaders, and give them their support?'

I think they have to be realistic and realise that Corbyn is busy (holding rallies or tending the allotment or whatever else) and that he hasn't got time to mentor them individually. Maybe they should look for support from their colleagues of the whips if they need that.

Because they are out of tune with Labour members, and I believe the people as a whole,

I agree, but it is not they who have changed, it is the views of the membership. Only 2 years ago, those prospective MPs, with those views, were selected by Labour Party members to be Labour Party candidates in the 2015 general election.

2 years on, the membership has changed, their views have changed and (if you accept the findings of the survey posted upthread) half of the people who voted for them at the last election do not support JC as leader. Granted, there may be many more people committed to voting Labour in the future, but it is unlikely that those MPs are the right people to represent them.

Labour members are such a small number of voters

You keep saying Corbyn is popular why because he has rallied a few left wingers

Labour are behind in the polls and have been for months and they did terribly in the local elections

This wasn't down to Labour MP's and a conspiracy (spun by his pr team) it's becaise they don't understand what direction the party is taking and many people do not like Corbyn

The most popular PM's with the highest percentage of voters have been Tharcher and Blair like or loath them they led their party they made decisions, they worked on proposals and strategies they didn't waste time attending rallies and they got on with their job

ODFOD

Well that's a useful contribution to the discussion MiaowJario

That was for the OP Enthusiasm, sorry you were offended.

Incidentally, my contribution is at least as useful as the whole discussion on this issue has been (on this thread, and indeed countrywide). I don't really think a biscuit has lowered the intellectual timbre. And it is in fact apposite.

This thing about the 172.
I am convinced by events that when push comes to shove, there will not be 172 standing with the blairites.
MPs are still following the old party whip, and did as they were told during the coup. When Corbyn wins this absolute waste of time and money challenge there will be regrouping I am sure. There are no more than 25-30 right wing blairites but they don't want us to know that.

I am myself very happy to see Labour renewing itself and returning to democratic governance. The NEC have also recently changed complexion, very refreshing to see.
The main thrust of the message Corbyn is trying to communicate is that Austerity is a political choice. The Tories and the Blairites have been complicit in promoting this political theory and Corbyn and the centre left are challenging this. Billions of pounds have been wasted propping up the banks, time for a change I think.

Oh and I think Corbyn is very electable!

Miaow, you are probably right! Whilst the commoners are kept busy deflecting abuse, Labour Tomorrow are busy with the party lawyers preparing for a smash and grab of the spoils of war.

Hope their donors have deep pockets!