Black Lives Matter campaigners

[RattusRattus]

I am a little confused as to why these guys are demonstrating. There seems to be no obvious catalyst - i.e. in response to a recent example of police racial prejudice. Also isn't BLM an American organisation? It just seems like they are making a point for the sake of it rather than getting themselves heard in a more constructive way. Also, IMO all lives matter, so equality should be the same whatever race you are. I can't really see how are they going to do much more than annoy people by blocking roads.

problems with talking about using the phrase 'black lives matter' is the fact that white people cannot abide not being the centre of attention for even a few minutes

I think this is the most offensively racist statement on this thread.

Farty I agree, surely ALL lives matter.?

Making everybody elses life a misery by causing chAos, is on the other hand certainly not endearing people to the cause.

By conflating Black Lives Matter with all lives matter is to therefore deny the existence of white privilege. Astonishing that people don't get this.

Well I am a racist, but if a bunch of people feel strongly enough to protest about something they believe in, and do it non-violently more power to em. It doesn't kill me to listen. I'll confess I'd need to read round more about precise issues the uk contingent want to raise, but I'm happy to do so.

If people need to be endeared to the cause then that's clearly the problem.

Disagree with what a protest is about by all means, but never deny anyone the right to do so.

I'm just as worried about the Police shooting people as anyone else. It's unacceptable, totally..

But Muffy You do know that when Duggan was killed he was being watched by police for involvement in the Mandem Crew – a violent gang with links to the Turkish criminal underworld? A gang believed to be behind two murders and a number of shootings? You'll have noticed how BLM people who were out here disrupting peoples lives at Heathrow the other day, had nothing to say about the people murdered by the criminal gang that Duggan was associated with? Their Mum's, Dad's, friends, children? I agree with Super that it's just when and if the Police are involved, then Black lives all of a sudden become valuable to these people. Duggan had been arrested on suspicion of murder, was believed by police to have shot someone in a nightclub and to have used a gun in a nightclub car park, months before he was killed. Officers had also arrested him while driving in vehicles containing guns and ammunition. This is not a justification for his killing. As I said that was totally unacceptable. But let's not hero worship the man FHS.

I think this is the most offensively racist statement on this thread.

Reverse racism does not exist.

People of lower socio - economic status have increased rates of violence

If we're introducing ourselves, I'm Black / African / French. I've lived in Africa, the US, France and in England now for 23 years and this is the least racist nation I've ever lived in, by a mile. Yes that includes Guinea where I was born. I'm sorry but I hate this kind of BS jargon (see above). It so isn't helpful to any group that wanting to solve the problems they face. Black people don't need to have their hair tousled in a 'there, there, we know you can't help yourselves' way. Again, BS!

There is a certain thing as personal responsibility, hard work, setting a good example, getting an education and applying diligence in overcoming the problems you face. The standards that white people demand of themselves. Please, don't have a less expectation for blacks and go telling blacks the best thing is to wait for the white to change themselves. This means black kids will grow old waiting for their lives to improve and never succeeding.

D'you think all black people are behind BLM? Take a look at YouTube to see just how much and many blacks hate them. Imagine if whites started a protest movement which ignored all the white- on-white violence, the hooliganism and killings, but went Batshit mad when a black person took part?

Just been having a heated debate about this one... and Trop mirrors the feelings of my black friends (yes, I know, what a nice white I am, to allow Them to be my friends).

The general consensus seems to be that it is the separatist nature of the BLM in the UK, reflected by many posts in this thread, that is by far the scariest part of any discussion. Why? If you want a solution why set yourself and another section of the society you live in apart?

And don't give me the white privilege shite either. Trotting that one out states loudly and clearly that there is no solution that you will accept... yet! Why?

There is a certain thing as personal responsibility

This ^

Most sensible post so far Tropezien

All children in the UK are entitled to free education, it is up to parents to ensure their children attend school. Yet young black boys are 4 times more likely to be excluded than white boys, why is this? Could it be perhaps their own parents are the ones who are failing these young boys? Or are parents no longer responsible for raising their children to be law abiding citizens?

Superb post, Tropezienne - but you'll probably get flamed for bringing personal responsibility into it

don’t go telling blacks the best thing is to wait for the white to change themselves. This means black kids will grow old waiting for their lives to improve and never succeeding.

I agree with Tropezienne, UK is the least racist country, but there are people who are determined that it be seen as if it was.

Martin Luther King wanted black people to not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. The problem is education. Lack of education limits not only imagination but also one’s general knowledge database. Also, good conduct is always appreciated and noticed, because if you cannot be civil in all sorts of situations, who would want you? Unfortunately, there is so much disdain to speak English properly, how can you convince young black people that it is not a deviation from black identity.

The level of ignorance in some kids in my country and here is breathtaking. You have free education and yet so many of the young British black drop out. They ignore their mothers’ pleadings and prefer to stay with their crew instead. A revolutionary thought …..could that be because father is not on the scene? What I find curious are white people getting very worked up on our behalf. It does not feel authentic, and it could be individuals working off some political angst by proxy. Cognitive dissonance is not uncommon.

BLM would be more relevant if it targeted issues specific to the UK, because talking about shootings as if they are frequent events is a waste of energy.

I feel this might be a salient point to post:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=GeixtYS-P3s

I would add there are a tonne of people who view the current state of affairs through the lens of having been oppressed/victimised. Especially in the context of the feeling of not being listened to. The panacea to that particular problem is not to ignore them however. As long as I'm free to disagree I'm happy to listen to almost anyone.

The issues with a lot of the rhetoric coming out of the black lives matter contingent in the U.S. Is they are looking for things like segregation which seems to me like a retrograde step. In addition in Ferguson where one of these police shootings occurred there has been a lack of will to police at all since, net result more black lives lost.

Irrespective of whose 'fault' it all is I'm for targeting resources to ensure educational attainment in poorer areas.

Of course there is such a thing as personal responsibility. Everyone is ultimately responsible for their own actions. But that doesn't mean that people live in some kind of void and that they're not affected by the social context in which they live. The two things are not mutually exclusive. Not just talking in terms of race but also socioeconomic background. White working class boys as a group have poor educational outcomes also for example. Yes we all have free education in the uk (to the poster that mentioned it upthread) but people have very different experiences of it and different barriers to overcome.

The war on drugs has a lot to answer for, a great many black children grew up without fathers as they were incarcerated over relatively minor infractions. Although I don't think such was deliberately targeted at the black community, I can completely understand how it may feel that way.

Prior to this African American families were very strong this misguided state program has wreaked untold havok. I'm not advocating society tolerating drugs, but a shift from looking at it as a criminal issue and instead a health one may go some way to allow us to heal this colossal fuck up.

Historically the British Empire massively fucked over China with the opium wars over basically trying to get our tea cheaper, and pushing opium on them, but eventually european powers got kicked out and China is now a major culture and power again.

Ideally though I'd like anyone who's British to feel as culturally British as I am irrespective of wether they are English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, or any combination of ethnic background in addition to whichever roots they feel kin to. The country I love being from and living in simply wouldn't be the one I recognise without all the contributions both cultural and economic from everyone who calls it home.

Morgan Freeman has got it right. Great clip.

Of course there is such a thing as personal responsibility. Everyone is ultimately responsible for their own actions. But that doesn't mean that people live in some kind of void and that they're not affected by the social context in which they live

That needed to be said. Sorry Trop.

As I said I know young black men in Norwich who are incredibly decent but are still alway subject to stop and search. They have excellent parents and have had an excellent education, but it is so easy to turn a young man anti-social with this treatment from society at large.

Morgan: 'How are we going to stop racism? Stop talking about it. I'm going to stop calling you a white man, I'm going to ask you to stop calling me a black man. I know you as Mke Wallace (?), you know me as Morgan Freeman.'

That's what I believe too.

Movements that insist on making everything about race, with the aim of eradicating racism, are going to shoot themselves in the foot at some point.

I lost respect for BLM after an event where BLM and policemen had a cookout together then tweeted it wasn't sanctioned as it wasn't in line with their principles.