Black Lives Matter campaigners

[RattusRattus]

I am a little confused as to why these guys are demonstrating. There seems to be no obvious catalyst - i.e. in response to a recent example of police racial prejudice. Also isn't BLM an American organisation? It just seems like they are making a point for the sake of it rather than getting themselves heard in a more constructive way. Also, IMO all lives matter, so equality should be the same whatever race you are. I can't really see how are they going to do much more than annoy people by blocking roads.

The language used by BLM campaigners reported by my (black, if that matters) gay (ditto) Canadian friend was very much along those lines, yes.

I gather it's becoming a global movement and assumed the values would be shared.

Happy to learn more though.

I can just imagine the outrage at a "white boys education matters" protest

You might have a point there. There was a thread last week about white working class culture that was shouted down.

However, those side issues around the acceptability (to some) of discussing white WC disadvantage don't detract from the legitimacy of complaints about poor outcomes for other ethnic groups.

Personally I'd support both types of protest/campaign.

Giraffe here you go

Black lives matter. It's not racist to point out that life chances here are poorer for BAME people, particularly men. It's not as bad as in the states and the stakes are lower.
That said I'm suspicious of the timing of this protest and glad it seems to have fizzled out.

blacklivesmatter.com/about/

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36982748

White working class boys aren't oppressed because they're white, they're oppressed because of their class. You can't make it a racial issue.

If you're struggling to understand it, think of the message as "black lives matter TOO". Watch 12 Years a Slave and ponder the fact that white people went to Africa, stole a load of people and forced them to work for nothing. Whipped, abused them. We are not post-racism yet.

Just as we are still dealing with the aftermath of being a society where women are excluded from education and denied the right to vote because of their sex, we are still righting the wrongs of a society in which slavery was normalised.

You have to put the movement in context and actually research it, rather than knee-jerking because the hashtag doesn't apply to you and you feel left out.

The black lives matter movement is protesting discrimination against black people. It is not in any way trying to say that black lives are the only lives that matter. In the same way that feminism isn't trying to say that women are more important than men. It is about EQUALITY. Why oh why is it so difficult to understand?!

It was aimed at the thread in general as lots of people seem to be posting the same silly stuff and it's become a bit of an uninformed echo chamber.

The black lives matter movement is protesting discrimination against black people. It is not in any way trying to say that black lives are the only lives that matter. In the same way that feminism isn't trying to say that women are more important than men. It is about EQUALITY. Why oh why is it so difficult to understand?!

Good concise summary

f you're struggling to understand it, think of the message as "black lives matter TOO". Watch 12 Years a Slave and ponder the fact that white people went to Africa, stole a load of people and forced them to work for nothing. Whipped, abused them. We are not post-racism yet.

I'm not struggling to understand slavery. I spend four years at a local school in the Caribbean where I learned about it in great depth.

I also learned that slaves were also brought from Ireland and Scotland and that many slave dealers were black; in short that is also a class, or socioeconomic issue too. My teacher (black, since that appears to matter) went to some length to make sure everyone got that.

I don't feel left out at all. I just choose to see people rather than colour.

Ah right, well if one black teacher thinks that slavery wasn't a racial issue then we must all have got the wrong end of the stick. Thank god you were here to clear that up..

I also learned that slaves were also brought from Ireland and Scotland

This is untrue, and has been promulgated by white racists to an alarming extent to undercut the unique horror of the African slave trade (not saying you are a white racist, Mooingcow, just pointing out the peddlers of this particular historical myth). It's based on a flawed conflation of indentured servitude and chattel slavery. V different things.

www.discoveringbristol.org.uk/slavery/after-slavery/wider-world/black-white-in-britain/racist-ideas/

Giraffe - your post at 16:34 is spot on.

Maude indeed, some were indentured servants who ironically, were treated even more badly (as if such comparisons work in such an appalling abuse of humanity) than African slaves as the owners were obliged to give them freedom after 7-14 years and some land (usually barren, where they starved to death). As they were of limited use, they were last in line for food, never given medical attention etc.

In Virginia, many plantations only used white slaves for a while. It has been documented and I know several descendants of white slaves, one of whom has spent a lifetime researching his family history. He'd be surprised to hear that it's all a fiction.

I'm neither of those things, so no offence taken. But I think the issue is far, far more complex than white=evil, societally advantaged.

However, I feel the confrontational and sarcastic tone which is growing here is inappropriate for this debate so I will leave this thread.

It is all a fiction, and a pretty toxic one at that with decidedly racist undertones.

If you are genuinely interested, the work of Liam Hogan is a good place to start - link here.

Maud I can't help noticing that in using that quote, you missed off the bit about slave traders also coming from the black community

I wonder why that was?

Maude indeed, some were indentured servants who ironically, were treated even more badly (as if such comparisons work in such an appalling abuse of humanity) than African slaves as the owners were obliged to give them freedom after 7-14 years and some land (usually barren, where they starved to death). As they were of limited use, they were last in line for food, never given medical attention etc.

All were indentured servants. There were no Irish or Scottish white slaves. And there was legal recourse for white indentured servants for mistreatment, none at all for chattel slaves. White indentured servants had legal personhood, chattel slaves did not.

You do realise that your arguments are distastefully close to those you find discussing this falsehood on white supremacist/nationalist sites?

Watch 12 Years a Slave Yes because you're likely to get a balanced view of the facts from a Hollywood motion picture!!!!

How do you feel about the fact that Slavery was stared by blacks in Africa, looooong before whites got in on it and took Slaves overseas? And whilst were on the subject what about slavery today in Africa and the M.E? Would you care to discuss that as well? What do you and BLM have to say about Boko Haram in Nigeria I'm wondering? Why just White involvement? Why not hold to account the Islamic countries which also traded in slaves for centuries (and continue to do so to this day )? What about the black Africans who colluded in the Atlantic slave trade, selling off their own people? Will BLM be claiming reparation from them? No, because this isn’t about slavery at all, it’s about attacking Western powers, for which they’ll get an enormous helping hand from the many useful idiots on the Left.

Just as we are still dealing with the aftermath of being a society where women are excluded from education and denied the right to vote because of their sex I'm sorry, which planet are we talking about here? Am I dreaming or are you saying that here in the UK women are being denied education?

You have to put the movement in context and actually research it, rather than knee-jerking because the hashtag doesn't apply to you and you feel left out Perhaps you should take a bit of your own advice..?

Actually you did say the aftermath, so my mistake. However I think the fact that girls are vastly outperforming boys at school and women are getting more BA's PhDs etc in the humanities, biology, social sciences, health, veterinary sciences, suggest improvements are well underway and have been for sometime.

Puzzled because that isn't historically false, unlike the claim about Irish/Scottish white slaves.

The existence of black slave traders doesn't, to my mind, imply equal culpability however.

The existence of black slave traders doesn't, to my mind, imply equal culpability however

Interesting ...