Black Lives Matter campaigners

[RattusRattus]

I am a little confused as to why these guys are demonstrating. There seems to be no obvious catalyst - i.e. in response to a recent example of police racial prejudice. Also isn't BLM an American organisation? It just seems like they are making a point for the sake of it rather than getting themselves heard in a more constructive way. Also, IMO all lives matter, so equality should be the same whatever race you are. I can't really see how are they going to do much more than annoy people by blocking roads.

Fruit ok fine I added make but I'd say that was a safe assumption

Out of 1,561 deaths recorded by Inquest, a charity that supports families who have lost loved ones to deaths in custody, 156 involved victims from a black or other ethnic background.

In reality over half of deaths in custody are of people with MH issues. Perhaps that should be our focus!

I'm not saying there isn't an issue with institutional racism, I'm saying this is absolutely the wrong bandwagon to fix that.

*male

From Inquest's website:

"INQUEST’s casework has shown that a disproportionate number of those who die in or following police custody following the use of force are from black and minority ethnic communities"

So it seems white (males) are not more likely to die in police custody, at least according to Inquest.

Sorry but the numbers on their own website don't support their statement!

156 out of 1561 can't possibly be considered disproportionate

The 156 figure is BME deaths occurring following the use of force by police.

The 1561 figure is all deaths in or following contact with police (not including suicide) ie not limited to those deaths following use of force.

There doesn't seem to be an equivalent statistic for total deaths following use of force by police, apart from that statement by Inquest that BME people are disproportionately likely to die following the use of force.

I think that explains the discrepancy between the figures/statements, but it could be made more clear, I agree.

Right, thanks, how misleading. Need to see the full figures then.

Having said that I still hold my stance that this is not the right message and not the right campaign. They are too unfocused, give no clear objectives and are hijacking slogans that make no sense!

And actually looking at that figure those 156 are over a 26 year period and may not have even been caused by the police :

Total BAME deaths in police custody or otherwise following contact with the police, England & Wales 1990-date

INQUEST defines police custody deaths as deaths that take place while the individual is in contact with police, whether or not they have been arrested, or that happen shortly after that contact. The death may not necessarily have occurred inside a police station

Well said, good points HobnailsandTaffeta. Though I'm not so sure about the right message* What exactly do you mean by that?

whoops got me asterisks in the wrong place .

Well said, good points HobnailsandTaffeta. Though I'm not so sure about the right message What exactly do you mean by that?

Sorry, I mean the right message is about the adverse factors affecting the life chances of BME people, it isn't about police deaths, brutality and shootings.

The BLM movement is predominantly a singular message about the racist USA police killings.

A group of numpties sitting around a waitrose lorry shouting "hands up don't shoot" is diluting and trivialising that message. Making people otherwise supportive of the BLM movement (me for instance) less engaged with it.

So while I haven't sat and thought up a campaign message, route and activity for what the UK movement requires I know this isn't it!

The BLM movement is predominantly a singular message about the racist USA police killings That's not entirely true but this post would be even longer if I addressed that.

For a little perspective on 'all of these innocent black people killed by racist Police'. First of all, I agree that 1 is too many, and if the Police involved are found guilty, they should go to jail - no question. But did you know that at current rates, it would take 41 years of blacks killed by police to equal the number of blacks killed by other blacks in a single year? In The US 400 people are killed every year by Police, 61% of whom are white, 32% black males.

Do you not agree with me that black people in America would benefit a lot more from a publicity seeking, protest movement dedicated to bringing to light the facts that 90% of murdered blacks die at the hands of other blacks? That Black men are 6.5% of the U.S. pop' yet are responsible for 52% of all murders. That over 74% of black children grow up with no father at home. Compared to 22% white and 15% Asians.

(Stat's taken from the 2015's FBI homicide report BTW, available online).

I think instead of blaming white people for their woes it would be enormously more constructive of groups like BLM to be working towards eradicating this infantile obsession with guns and 'thug culture' so rife in black communities. The real reason you get Police in black communities in the first place and not rescuing kittens from trees, and why we see prisons in America bulging with so many black people. Not as BLM would have us believe for 'just being black in a built up area'. The incarceration rate of black males is over 6 times higher than that of white males, with a rate of 4,749 per 100,000 US residents (source Wikipedia).

BLM work against the best interests of black people by promoting the lie that all this is due to racism. and that's all you need to think about..I say - instead of blaming white's and playing the victim card, it would be far more constructive of these imbeciles promoting riots and destruction, (mostly of other black peoples private property, their homes and businesses, as we saw in Ferguson and Louisville) and start focusing on not being part of those statistics I mentioned. Encourage and promote in black communities, parental responsibility, law obedience, the benefits of proper education, working with police to eradicate crime from their communities and not against them as BLM want.

supersoftcuddlytoys your post seems to cite the number of black people killed by other black people as a way of trying to discredit BLM.

In 2014 82.4% of white homicide victims in the USA were killed by other white people (FBI stats). I believe that's the same place you got your stats. Funny how you don't mention that. How often do those who want to highlight "black on black" crime address white on white crime? It's not even a thing.

Seen as no one's saying White lives matter, it isn't funny I didn't mention it at all. It was irrelevant. Whites kill whites and black kill blacks.

BLM dont need me to discredit them they've been doing an excellent job since its inception.

Seen as no one's saying White lives matter, it isn't funny I didn't mention it at all. It was irrelevant.

That's because white lives do matter, that"s the default. No one needs to start a campaign about it. It's called white privilege.

supersoftcuddlytoys , I see that it's not just Muslims you hate

That's the whole point. The default position of society in the UK and USA is that white lives matter. That's the status quo. No one needs to say white lives matter because it's a given, they already do. It's the unsaid truth, all around us in our media white lives are given prominence and importance.

Cross post Iamthegreatest

So I'll repeat the question, who's saying black lives DON'T matter?

An extensive study by the John J College of Criminal Justice in the US concluded that if you're a white man in a similar confrontation / situation with the Police. you are more likely to be shot by the Police than a black man. More white men are shot in the street by the Police than Black men. But what do BLM have to say about those killed by the Police in unjust circumstances – that aren't black? The truth is, they care less than nothing for the thousands enormous number of blacks killed by their fellow blacks every year in the US.

If there is no Police officer involved, the killing of small Black children and innocent people in general by their fellow Blacks, (the crimes that are really are, daily, ripping lives and communities apart), will go by unmentioned, without a word from BLM. It's because all these incidents don't give these hooligans the opportunity to go out in the street bellowing racism and encouraging riots and destruction.

The truth is, they care less than nothing for the thousands enormous number of blacks killed by their fellow blacks every year in the US.

What a ridiculous statement. How can you possibly know how much individuals care about something?

You've already said (once I pointed out that the stats for black on black homicide and white on white homicide are pretty similar) that black people kill black people and white people kill white people.

Yet you think that because black people commit crimes against their own community they can never campaign against racial discrimination?

White people commit crimes against other whites all the time. Does that mean we can never protest about anything? Or do you hold black people to a different standard?

Any idiot saying ALL LIVES MATTER is part of the problem.
Black lives do not matter much in the USA, hence the campaign. It means Black Lives Matter Too.
That said the UK is not the US so these protestors should stop messing up innocent people's flight plans! Go stand outside Tottenham police station or whatever. Lying down at Heathrow is just selfish and pathetic.

If there is no Police officer involved, the killing of small Black children and innocent people in general by their fellow Blacks .... will go by unmentioned, without a word from BLM

Unfortunately this appears to be true - at least, I've never seen much mention of it by the BLM movement

The existence of one problem is certainly no reason to avoid protesting about something else, but I do wonder why so many seem determined to avoid this very important issue; after all, since black lives obviously DO matter, surely that must be the case no matter where the threat comes from?