Black Lives Matter campaigners

[RattusRattus]

I am a little confused as to why these guys are demonstrating. There seems to be no obvious catalyst - i.e. in response to a recent example of police racial prejudice. Also isn't BLM an American organisation? It just seems like they are making a point for the sake of it rather than getting themselves heard in a more constructive way. Also, IMO all lives matter, so equality should be the same whatever race you are. I can't really see how are they going to do much more than annoy people by blocking roads.

I've never heard anyone offended about the use of the word community.

So is 'whites' equally offensive to you ladies? No one has said.

Because the answer to this is the benchmark by which everything else is determined?

I did think attitudes such as yours died out a long time ago, alas not.

When I was young and stupid I was a big supporter of the Black Panther movement in USA, but since those years (when they instructed America to call us Black, which America did for decades) I have no time for violent action.

By the way, ladies, I am an American black woman living in London.

I've never heard anyone offended about the use of the word community.

I never said it was offensive. There have been debates on the radio about finding a different term, because it just feels false and daft.

She's not showing genuine concern at all. She's trying to divert attention away from racism by saying oh but look, members of the African- American community do this....to each other so let's look at that.

It's exactly the same as when there's a post about female victims of domestic violence and someone comes on and says but women are violent too and to their partners.

People of lower socio - economic status have increased rates of violence. Because they live in a society where they have poor housing, poor access to education, health care, higher rates of neglect and abuse in childhood, increased rates of parental drug use and criminality, increased rates of drug use and criminality in adulthood, increased rates of severe mental illness and incarceration in prison or secure MH facilities.

And African American and Black British people are always as a group over - represented in low socio - economic groups so experiencing more of these problems than White American or White British people.

So the wide eyed 'oh look at all the blacks killing blacks' (I object to that language as I have previously said) is a faux concern and ignoring the fact that there are higher rates of violence in lower socio - economic groups BECAUSE they are a lower socio - economic group. And the reason they are a lower socio- economic group for people of colour is because of centuries of racism.

That's why people get really annoyed by these threads. Because anyone with any sense or knowledge of these issues understands this. And it's frustrating that other people are so ignorant.

And it does of course also have implications of further racism - that posters don't want to say it outright as it would completely out them as racists but they are suggesting that there is an issue of violence specific to am ethnic group because that ethnic group may be inherently more violent.

So is 'whites' equally offensive to you ladies? No one has said.

Well yes it is actually. But it doesn't impact on me the same way as referring to PoC as "blacks" as I am not oppressed in the same way PoC are.

Here bloody here heknowsmysin Every single word you said is correct

*People of lower socio - economic status have increased rates of violence. Because they live in a society where they have poor housing, poor access to education, health care, higher rates of neglect and abuse in childhood, increased rates of parental drug use and criminality, increased rates of drug use and criminality in adulthood, increased rates of severe mental illness and incarceration in prison or secure MH facilities.

And African American and Black British people are always as a group over - represented in low socio - economic groups so experiencing more of these problems than White American or White British people.*

Absolutely this!

Well said heknows. That type of rhetoric fails to grasp the meaning of BLM. Using stats of black people killing other black people to undermine the BLM cause is frankly disgusting.

So maybe it's a cultural and language difference.
People of African origin in the UK are not African American and they are more likely to be recent arrivals from the Caribbean or Africa, hence the descriptive Black rather than referring to their origin as where they're from is more diverse than in the U.S.

As a rule in the UK we generally put people first linguistically- so you won't hear the blind or the disabled either. And community is less loaded than in the states so it's unlikely to be heard with the same agitprop vibe as you're hearing.
But we really hate 'ladies' it means toilets or has connotations of our grannies retiring after supper rather than a group of grown women having a serious discussion.

Thank you, FruitCider, that at least is an answer.

I don't understand why so many have difficulty in replying to a question (if they want to) without frothing at the mouth. I have seen this increasingly with uni students in this country. To be unable, all thru your life, to debate without rancour and insult will be a handicap.

Ahem I answered you question immediately!
handicapped is not generally used either

Ladies is not acceptable, nor I presume is Women or Girls. And yet my co-workers at the uni in London have no problems with sometimes referring to each other affectionately - regardless of vintage -, i.e. Come on girls, the taxi is waiting.

'Handicap' in the context I used is perfectly acceptable and understandable, because it is not being ascribed to a physical or mental frailty. I'm very hot on disablist language as a family member has a serious disability.

I haven't read the whole thread because it was making me sick.

here is some more information about BAME deaths in police custody in the UK and here are some details about a short film being made about it.

Mzee Mohammed
Sarah Reed
Sheku Bayoh

These are a few names I can think of off the top of my head. Aside from, of course, Mark Duggan and Joy Gardner who everyone already talks about.

In fact, now I've mentioned Mark Duggan, it has made me think about not only the actual lives of these people, but also the way media treats black people generally. That "hard faced" picture the media loves to use of Mark Duggan - has anyone ever seen the full length version of it? If not, look it up. It might get you thinking about this in a bit more depth. Why do the media choose to portray black people in this light? Do black lives really matter if this is what's happening?

Brandon a medic from Sea Watch 2 makes a valid point as to why #blacklivesmatters is needed.

Our current refugee crisis and the closing down of borders is appalling. These poor people would not be forced to risk their lives in unseaworthy boats if they were white. The structural racism going on RIGHT NOW is completely shocking.

I think this Save The Children video highlights beautifully what the experiences of those fleeing is actually like.

Miriam just because the use of handicap in that context is accurate and not related to disability doesn't mean it's sensitive to use it. Ditto if your university colleagues use ladies or girls- in some contexts language has different connotations and it's kind and wise of us all to adapt to our audiences. If I came to your work or met your family I'd adapt to the language you're all using, that's all we're suggesting you do.

But Muffy has brought the thread back on course. BLM is a real and serious issue and cause and debating linguistics and the cultural loading of particular terms is a distracting sideshow.

Apocalypse Handicap is still in the dictionary and, as you know, conveys a barrier or encumbrance. Used in golf too, I'm told. Cannot wipe out some words - that's totalitarianism. Look how the word 'wicked' has evolved, and now has two main meanings.

Ok Miriam. My point is that it's sensitive to use appropriate words and a distraction to bang on about language use rather than the issues.

As for me - this protest has completely lost me.

BLM could have had me and others completely on board, but the attitude of the protest was full of selfish entitlement - picking on holiday makers.

There was no respect for holiday makers whatsoever - no warnings and no sorrys.

So I have no time for the preachings on here today about respect.

This protest failed badly - no sympathy from me.

Sometimes it's not about the words being accurate. It's about what the word is used for. Words can change meaning and context to become derogatory. We apply meaning and feelings to words on how we say them. If it's used for abuse it loses its innocent meaning and gains what could be deemed offensive. Bullies, racist and bigoted people do this all the time. Reinforcing and referring to people with those words to refer to them as "other". That's when words become offensive. Blame the hijackers who use words for abuse rather than what it is meant for. If a person finds the way they are being described offensive, don't complain about your freedom of speech because the words to you has no emotional meaning. To other people it's their lives you are talking about and it can be degrading.

Empathy is worth far more than sympathy anyway.

There was no respect for holiday makers whatsoever - no warnings and no sorrys.

I'm sure PoC get no warnings or apologies for individual acts of prejudice and bias and structural racism either. That point was lost on you it seems.

'I'm sure PoC get no warnings or apologies for individual acts of prejudice and bias and structural racism either. That point was lost on you it seems.'

Are the holiday makers the oppressors?

No.

Lots of demonstrations cause disruption that is partly the point if they didn't what media attention would many get

How many tourists to London We're disrupted by the poll tax demonsteation with areas cornered off, the Iraq war demonstration caused huge disruption to central London

If just waving a few banners outside the Houses of Parliament bought change then demonstrations wouldn't need to take place

Interesting that protest and demonstration have a different impact on reporting and probably how much support will be gained