Another terrorist attack

[Kreeshsheesh]

Priest has been murdered. Apparently IS had threatened to target churches in France.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36892785

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/12181905/We-must-not-tolerate-British-imams-who-applaud-barbarism-in-Pakistan.html

This is what I am talking about.

"Except that some of those who regard Qadri as a Muslim martyr and hero are not only British, but are senior leaders of the Muslim community here"

Muhammed Asim Hussain is an Imam from Bradford. His Facebook page has been “liked” nearly 136,000 times. On the day of Qadri’s execution he told his followers: “A dark day in the history of Pakistan; the day Ghazi Mumtaz was wrongfully executed and martyred in the way of Allah, when he did what he did in honour of the Prophet.”

"At a time when Muslims face greater scrutiny and hostility than ever before, due to the actions of terrorists and psychopaths claiming Allah as their motivation, the last thing they need is their own community leaders spouting such arrant, offensive and arguably criminal nonsense.

Yet spout it they do, and will continue to, until they are made accountable and removed from their positions of authority. Hats off to those in the Muslim community who bravely take to the comments threads to make the case for sensible, modern, peaceful Islam, in the face of some pretty intense abuse from their co-religionists.

www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-14/cleric-set-to-leave-australia-after-anti-gay-comment-controversy/7509358

Why is this man allowed to fly round the world preaching hate???

It was all just a misunderstanding...

This business about "they're not really Muslims" is becoming absurd. It's the "no true Scotsman" fallacy on a grand scale.

Shia and Sunni Muslims have been engaged in warfare with each other for the past 1200 years. I've no doubt that many Muslims regard themselves as peaceful adherents of a peaceful religion, but the truth is that the history of Islam is a long and bloody one.

Equally, I might add, none of us would pretend that the Crusaders "weren't really Christian" or that Queen Elizabeth I, who burnt Catholics at the stake, wasn't really a Christian. They might not have adhered to our notion of Christianity as a peaceful religion, but they certainly thought of themselves as Christians.

Wouldn't it be great if there was a mass movement of Muslims, thousands of people and showing these terrorists how angry they are, you know in the same way when a cartoon of Mohammed is drawn in a magazine

^
This

There needs to be loud and clear messages from Muslim leaders and communities that this is not in their name and that these people are not representative of their religion. As an Irish Catholic I understand the frustration and anger at the assumption that because you are part of a religion that you also support any terrorists and ideology associated with this. However the most effective message comes from rejection from their own communities saying enough is enough.

I agree FarAwayHills and it really puzzles me why we haven't seen this. Why haven't national/international groups sprung up 'muslims against violence ' with demonstrations every week and wrist bands/merchandise, conferences, spokespeople and all the rest. I don't think this problem will be tackled until we do see this. I know lots of people say Muslims shouldn't need to speak out against this but I disagree, they should be absolutely deafening. A loud, charismatic, Muslim led and appealing to young people, anti extremists voice is something we really need.

I remember years ago a rightwing Christian bomber planted bombs targeting Brixton, then Brick Lane and then gay people in Soho. I remember at least two marches 'not in my name' almost immediately. These marches were planned for every week but stopped as soon as the bomber was caught. I also remember the 'I'll ride with campaign in Australia after the Sydney bombing. Why aren't we seeing something similar coming from the Muslim communities?

Hello,
So many good posts.
Am I alone in being irritated by the media's use of vocabulary to describe these murderers?
For instance the words 'State' in Islamic State and 'soldiers' in IS soldiers do legitimise these criminals. Why can't they just be called murderers or thieves instead? Words such as 'Soldiers' do glorify their actions in my opinion.

Right I'm Muslim. I have Muslim friends who wouldn't refer to this as an Islamic attack. You're basically saying it's ok to call a terrorist attack by the name of a religion therefore implying that's what the religion is promoting? Forget if these Isis members are religious or not!!! They are not Muslims and are using Islam as a guise. I'm telling you it's offensive to me. But carry on using it to tar my religion and other Muslims. Thanks a lot.

My question is- why aren't the Muslim religeion/community saying or doing anything about it?

They seem to saty pretty quiet while the PMs/prsedents of the countries speak out.

Is there a reason, is it fear? genuine question.

(this applies to ANYONE who uses ANY religion as an excuse to kill).

Just read Farawayhills posts and ive basicallyasked same thing, shes put it much better though.

Queen Elizabeth I, who burnt Catholics at the stake,
Hackmum, completely off topic but is this true? I didn't think Elizabeth burnt Catholics but that it was her half-sister Mary that burnt protestants. Clearly she had harsh rules against practising Catholicism and many of those executed on the basis that they had plotted against her were Catholics so not suggesting all was sweetness and light.

Anyway, I agree with your general point just interested in this bit!

People can either try to shut down debate or up their game and produce more convincing arguments

Quite so - and sadly, it's hard to avoid the thought that those who try to shut down debate do so because they don't have convincing arguments. As has been said, it's hard to argue with extremists when the texts backing their actions are there for all to see, and while nobody suggests all muslims sympathize with these commands - far less follow them - ignoring them hardly helps either

I also agree about the importance of looking more closely at the status and beliefs of certain imams. I don't doubt it would be unpopular, but it seems to me we're beyond worrying about that now ... and surely the vast majority of peaceful muslims would be just as keen to root out this sort of thing?

Becker Muslims and Muslim organisations everywhere are condemning the attacks.

Have you personally condemned every single atrocity terrorist attack carried out by the west? Why don't you why doesn't your neighbour?

What exactly do you want every single Muslim individually stating they condemn terror attacks? OK how exactly what platform would you like for us to use?

And so far the terror attacks have been carried out by men who have never stepped in a mosque. Who drink, do drugs, gamble visit strippers eat pork.
The imams, mosques and the religion of Islam have nothing to do with it. They have Arabic names and Muslim relatives.

OK how exactly what platform would you like for us to use?

I'm very very surprised that there hasn't been some sort of 'Muslims against extremism ' network set up, in the same way we had anti-apartheid groups with demonstrations and meetings in the 1980s.

Auti - where on earth did you find that? And is it meant to be funny?

Terribly bad taste.

The imams, mosques and the religion of Islam have nothing to do with it

I'm truly sorry, but it just doesn't wash any more:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/imams-are-allowed-to-preach-hate-in-prisons-9bqh3sq0r
www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/05/isis-recruitment-moves-to-radical-network-and-mosques
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-35893123

Time we did something about Wahhabism and its spiritual home, Saudi Arabia.

I read that the poor priest was beheaded, which is consistent with Daesh.

The reflexive islamaphobia on this thread is frightening.

Energy would be better spent taking issue with the finger in ears, "its just male violence", POV that's been increasingly prevalent, which refuses to recognise self-radicalised Islamist violence as a phenomenon.

My question is- why aren't the Muslim religion/community saying or doing anything about it?

Good question. I guess they're terrified of having a fatwa issued, or worse - remember the Glasgow newsagent?