Another terrorist attack

[Kreeshsheesh]

Priest has been murdered. Apparently IS had threatened to target churches in France.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36892785

There are reports that a second victim is fighting for their life also.

I suspect because Breivik may not have been a commited Christian as such. A fair amount of people in Norway as in here choose not to have any faith. He merely said European values, which nowaday does not automatically include having any faith.

I'm Christian heritage and I don't feel like my beliefs share much with the tossers who protest outside abortion clinics or hold God Hates Fags demos. But I don't try and claim their actions are 'nothing to do with Christianity', at least the way they interpret it. There are always sects and variants within a faith; Islamism is a variant of Islam. Not a nice one, but not totally unrelated either. These attacks are not 'nothing to do with Islam' any more than they are representative of Islam. Sorry if you find that uncomfortable.

Most people are sticking to the facts as reported, that the attackers are reported as possibly having the motivation of IS. Most Muslims are not fully paid up members of IS by any stretch of the imagination.

This is what happens Hate, religions get tarred unfortunately when people do bad things and strongly associate with a religion etc, catholic priests abusing children, nuns persecuting young pregnant girls and so on.

Sorry if you feel offended, I was personally more offended by the perpetrators than the affect on the religion.

Unfortunately religion has been used over the centuries for some pretty damnably horrible acts (that includes ALL religions). Some people seem to want to find any excuse for bad behaviour and religion is often convenient for them. It doesn't mean that anyone of Christian heritage has anything to do with the 'God hates gays' brigade or that anyone Muslim has anything to do with IS. But we all need to realise it can and is being twisted for the ends of some people. What do they mostly want? Power, to call the shots, to get their way...

Lets not allow another thread about a horrific event to tear itself apart. This was, it looks to be an ISIS, or an ISIS inspired attack. We should be uniting against them, not turning on everyone else.

'They are not Muslims and are using Islam as a guise. I'm telling you it's offensive to me. But carry on using it to tar my religion and other Muslims. Thanks a lot.'

Yes these terrorists call themselves Islamic State - and that's upsetting for Muslims I know, but we have to talk about it because this group is basically at war with Europe. It's getting serious - and these attacks are not going to stop.

what sort of policy response Justfive? What can they do?

Well I wonder. The security services will never throw their hands up and down tools, so what is the possible (stealth) escalation of actions available to them?

How long until we're well into the realms of domestic black ops? (It didn't take much for habeas corpus to be undermined 10 years ago.)

I also worry that, more visibly, all of this feeds a dramatic swing to the right across Europe.

Will there be increasingly mainstream support for suspending refugee programmes and somehow (magically!) reversing multiculturalism? It's worrying.

Right I'm Muslim. I have Muslim friends who wouldn't refer to this as an Islamic attack. You're basically saying it's ok to call a terrorist attack by the name of a religion therefore implying that's what the religion is promoting? Forget if these Isis members are religious or not!!! They are not Muslims and are using Islam as a guise. I'm telling you it's offensive to me. But carry on using it to tar my religion and other Muslims. Thanks a lot.

Yes, we have a word for violent loony criminals who try to co-opt Islam for their own perverted craziness. It's Islamism.

Very different from Islam. Not complicated. Maybe some people still didn't get the memo.

Right I'm Muslim. I have Muslim friends who wouldn't refer to this as an Islamic attack. You're basically saying it's ok to call a terrorist attack by the name of a religion therefore implying that's what the religion is promoting? Forget if these Isis members are religious or not!!! They are not Muslims and are using Islam as a guise. I'm telling you it's offensive to me. But carry on using it to tar my religion and other Muslims. Thanks a lot.

Yes, we have a word for violent loony criminals who try to co-opt Islam for their own perverted craziness. It's Islamism.

Very different from Islam. Not complicated. Maybe some people still didn't get the memo.

'Nothing to do with Islam' has become a stock phrase on par with 'lessons will be learned' and 'communities must unite' wheeled out to cut off further discussion, distract from uncomfortable conversations and cover up the fact that no-one has any solutions. This is also exemplified by worrying about the possible future rise of the Far Right instead of focusing on what's happening in the here and now. These are all displacement activities. Attributing blame for events in terms of individual psychopathology also serves to obfuscate a wider support base for those activities. I don't have any solutions either as yet but thought I'd point out that stock phrases, while comforting, do nothing to change the situation and may even collude in its perpetuation.

I think most people are aware of the distinction between Islam as the religion and Islamism as the way ISIS et al are defined. Just as we always use the word fundamentalist to define groups of Christians who hold extreme views. you could also refer to them as a cult as well.

No one would confuse the actions of fundamentalist as being representative of the whole picture.

Yes Fourmummy - you articulated that just right.

It is unfortunate but the majority do have Muslim backgrounds. They do choose a path that warps that faith to this agenda. And sadly they believe what they are doing is the 'right' thing. People are capable of believing a lot of very bad things.

Nothing to do with Islam' has become a stock phrase on par with 'lessons will be learned' and 'communities must unite' wheeled out to cut off further discussion,

But it patently ISN'T anything to do with mainstream Islam, so what's the problem?

Am completely prepared to be told to fuck off but the way I see it is that although these terrorists follow Islam, they are just puppets. The ones pulling the strings don't give a flying fuck about religionists all about power and control (and possibly oil).

Religion it's

I also worry that, more visibly, all of this feeds a dramatic swing to the right across Europe. Will there be increasingly mainstream support for suspending refugee programmes and somehow (magically!) reversing multiculturalism? It's worrying.

Do you not think that, in the current situation, it might not be a bad idea to suspend the current refugee program? Bearing in mind that for every 1 refugee we settle in Europe, we could fund many more being settled closer to their home state? I mean how much worse do things have to get?

I also worry that, more visibly, all of this feeds a dramatic swing to the right across Europe

Quite - one form of extremism breeds others, and rational people want none of them

Let's not forget the French have their presidential election next year, and the idea of Marine Le Pen in that role hardly appeals

Forget if these Isis members are religious or not!!! They are not Muslims and are using Islam as a guise. I'm telling you it's offensive to me. But carry on using it to tar my religion and other Muslims. Thanks a lot.

This is from a blogger called Re-Enlightenment (championed by Ali Rizvi) on blasphemy laws and free speech;

"We must be unequivocal in our approach to freedom of speech: if something upsets you or offends you, however deeply you hold your views (and even, as in the case of the Jewish and Armenian genocides, which are purely secular restrictions on freedom of speech with no element of the divine and which therefore lend themselves to objective analysis of truth claims) then that is too bad. I repeat: that is too bad. That is a price of living in a free society. It will not be the role of the state or any organ of the state to protect your feelings."

Every day I wake up to see a new attack reported on the news and hope that it isn't a stupid Daesh attack, purely because each new attack refreshes the tongues (or keyboard tapping) of those with narrow-minded opinions about Islam.
Today 13:09 NeedAScarfForMyGiraffe
If it was an attack by ISIS it was an Islamic attack whether they meet your criteria of Muslim or not
You get good and bad people in every religion, it doesn't make them any more or less religious
By that definition, I could associate the horrific genocide committed by the Nazis with Christianity as their leader was brought up as a Christian? - Didn't think so.
Daesh do NOT define Muslims; I also request that this be defined as a terrorist attack by a fanatic group and not an "Islamic" attack.