Germany :(

[nuttymango]

And now Germany - an axeman has attacked people on a train.
BBC breaking news - www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36827725

OhYouBadBadKitten - thank you.

No, I didn't mean Italy and Greece. Yes, the process is slow and the raw numbers will naturally be lower, but the whole thing will be much more sustainable. In other words, if you take a million in a year, and the next year you find yourself facing terrorism from the newcomers, it will utterly poison goodwill towards refugees in the long term, turbocharge the far right, and mean that many of the refugees will never get good jobs and integrate and therefore avoid radicalization.

In my view, Merkel got it completely wrong, both in terms of the immediate safety of her citizens and in the long-term interest of the refugees in finding a warm welcome.

Take a limited number, fully vetted, and integrate them completely and carefully - that's the only safe way. We can take larger numbers more quickly, but only by accepting far greater levels of risk.

Nimbyism doesn't keep anyone safe

WidowWadman- "Nimbyism doesn't keep anyone safe"

It would have kept the people on the train safe from axe attack, and the people in the restaurant safe from suicide bombing.

So wrong again, and completely in denial of facts again.

allthemadmen but some of the recent attacks have been carried out by people who have been checked, have no links to Isis, or any other extremist groups. How would your checks work?
Reassurance means absolutely nothing - it's just words.

no.
The attack "s" so far in Germany may prove thus. However we know terrorists have been using migrant routes. We know this and the people in the EU know this.

How safe do you think they feel right now?

Checks to process people properly. We have seen letters written from different processing areas in Germany to Merkel begging for help. In some cases the only way to tell if a migrant was Syrian was by trying to gage their accents, by people who were not that sure.
Surely your not advocating just allowing anyone from anywhere into any country?

I feel no fear or harm from any of the Syrian refugees we have taken in the UK, I know some are settled in areas near me, and I am happy and glad for them. I know they are checked and vetted. No one could accuse them of being a terrorist.

Fanjoforthemammaries: Looks like you all might finally all have your attack you were hoping to justify your positions then

If this had been posted by anyone else this comment would have been picked up and the poster surely castigated. It's frankly disgusting and distasteful. How ironic this comment was posted by someone oh so virtuous and much nicer than the people worried about terrorism on this thread who are of course all racist bigots and just don't understand what poor terrorists have to suffer.

Yes and isn't it funny how the fact I said immediately off my own bathroom thay of course I would never say people were pleased by deaths is ignored in the rush to be outraged by what I didn't mean.

Also by people who have been calling others apologists for IsIS for the whole thread, which is pretty much the same as people are accusing me of saying (and I didn't even say)

Damn those pesky refugees for being an inconvenience, merely for being numerous.

Where exactly are they supposed to go? Or are they supposed to just stay in Syria? They have to go somewhere.

Lebanon house 1.5million refugees in an area the size of Devon and Cornwall. Turkey has taken 2.7million. We, as one of the most prosperous nations in the world with one of the highest standards of living and GDP, are sitting on our island bleating about how we are 'full'. How the fuck does that look to the rest of the world? Are we taking the fucking piss or what? Especially when our citizens have the nerve to go on about the 1% and don't get how we compare to other people around the world.

If the 28 nations of the EU had a shred of decency about them, they wouldn't leave Germany to bare the load alone - or indeed the long term problems. They'd actually see refugee as HUMAN BEINGS not a 'problem' that should just be dumped on someone else. And that a 'problem' shared, becomes much less of a 'problem'.

There ultimately lies your racism. In shutting the door and dehumanising. In calling people a 'problem'. Which has long term knock on effects. Its not just the exported terrorist that's the route of trouble, but also the superior western attitudes.

We do not solve the problem of terrorism by tarring everyone with the same brush. You tackle terrorism by embracing those who come and giving them a stake in the future that they want to be part of, and feel they therefore have an incentive to contribute not destroy.

All these bollocks of 'Taking Back Control' or 'America First' or what ever first and all the similar sentiments, miss the point. The point of humanity.

All this 'Muslims this, Muslims that' IS bollocks. It will always be bollocks no matter how many attacks there are. The alternative is to condemn others to death or to a life without liberty. Which makes us monsters ourselves.

I'm sorry, but you can do x, y or z in the name of protecting your country but if its at the expense of denying others then you are part of the problem not the solution.

For all the arguments that Islam generally perhaps doesn't treat certain groups well, are beside the point and just is not true across the board though. Do you want to do the same? That's in effect what you do, when start going on about 'how bad Islam' is.

Until you start treating humans like human this will go on forever, unless we destroy civilisation in the process of thinking we are better, or more deserving than another.

You can not destroy or contain attitudes or beliefs. You can only neutralise them by offering something preferable and more appealing and more beneficial to all. Isolation and lack of integration requires both parties to do something. When was the last time you got off your arse and made an effort with a different community to your own?

Sorry, I've had it with the othering. There is no 'them and us'. Just people who don't talk to each other out of fear and ignorance.

Of course I meant off my own bat there. Silly tablet.

And it's funny you say people don't castigate me, people do all the time.

Perhaps noone did about this because I had immediately explained what I meant and didn't mean so they took it the right way. Talk about desperate to be outraged. Really.

I think you know in your heart of hearts that you said something very wrong.

Looks like you all might finally all have your attack you were hoping to justify your positions then.

I note the Mail is trying to link it in to the two other attacks which weren't Islamist. Shameful rag.

Obviously I would never accuse anyone of being glad deaths occurred. But some people have a position and will leap on this to justify it

I think you are talking shit, sorry.

I think there are others who know what they are responsible saying is wrong and are projecting by claiming I said something I actually took pains to point out i didn't mean. Very pathetic,.

Excuse the random words inserted by tablet, I have neck issue at moment, not drinking although am tempted with all this nonsense.

you can do x, y or z in the name of protecting your country but if its at the expense of denying others then you are part of the problem not the solution.

Elsewhere on this thread I have been flamed for feeling some pity for the young axeman on the train.

But I am afraid that protecting your country does, sadly, sometimes mean doing things at the expense of others. Obviously , where this line is drawn is moot. But your own citizens' safety comes first. That is the primary responsibility of elected governments.

I also agree that Merkel's acceptance of so many refugees was never going to be a good idea. The safest way for them and us is for them to be taken directly from the camps, after getting. No hazardous boat journeys. No traffickers.

Vetting, not getting.

It's naive to believe the boat journeys would stop
People continue to land in Greece and Italy.

For all the arguments that Islam generally perhaps doesn't treat certain groups well, are beside the point and just is not true across the board though. Do you want to do the same?

I have Muslim friends in Paris and Lebanon who are watching with horror the spread of Wahhabism across Europe and the naive more-tolerant-than-thou embracing of it by those who have never lived under such regimes and who insist on closing down any debate thereof.

I think anyone who insists that there is no danger to the European way of life from such an ideology should spend time living in it.

It's very easy to preach theory from a safe and tolerant place that grants you anonymity and the right to express and opinion, however distasteful, and actively enshrines those rights in law, custom and society.

Those are the things I think we must protect as well as share.

RedToothBrush - "It will always be bollocks no matter how many attacks there are. The alternative is to condemn others to death or to a life without liberty. Which makes us monsters ourselves."

So there you have it, folks - the terrorists can kill us literally without limit, but if we take any measures to protect ourselves, then we're the monsters. The far left at its most incredibly delusional.

Hey Red, what percentage of the population do you think would agree to sacrifice their safety for your pious do-goodery? Not enough to win any election or referendum, I'll bet you that! Probably not enough to fill a phone booth!

RedToothBrush - "We, as one of the most prosperous nations in the world with one of the highest standards of living and GDP"

Yeah, and we bloody well intend to stay like that!

WidowWadman

"It's naive to believe the boat journeys would stop
People continue to land in Greece and Italy."

Deploy Europe's fleets, tow the boats back every single time, and arrest the people traffickers. They'll stop.

I am afraid that protecting your country does, sadly, sometimes mean doing things at the expense of others. Obviously , where this line is drawn is moot. But your own citizens' safety comes first. That is the primary responsibility of elected governments

^^ This

'Hey Red, what percentage of the population do you think would agree to sacrifice their safety for your pious do-goodery? Not enough to win any election or referendum, I'll bet you that! Probably not enough to fill a phone booth!'

Mooingcow, ditto, in the UK and Germany. They are horrified as you say, both by the spread of Wahabism but also the naive idiots who don't know what they're dealing with.

And those who are too stupid to understand the difference between rational concern over the rapid spread of a hate-filled mysoginistic homophobic ideology and actual racism.

Because I've experienced both and there's no space to debate your offence over delicate nuances of language when you're being screamed at and assaulted for having the wrong genitals or skin colour.