Germany :(

[nuttymango]

And now Germany - an axeman has attacked people on a train.
BBC breaking news - www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36827725

Fanjo - you can't engage because reality is crushing your fantasies. I already told you my favourite paper is the Guardian, and all this week's attack have been reported there. But keep on hoping reality goes away if you ignore it. Clue: it won't.

Beyond - "so really we are only actually talking about the original axe attack?"

Do you read the news? Did you miss the Syrian asylum seeker carrying out a suicide bombing yesterday? How deep in reality denial are you?

I had missed that, yes.
It's still two instances then though, not the DV one or the shooting.
Which no, isn't good. But isn't as bad as if you do include the other two, is it. Iyswim?

I'm not in denial, I know there are issues with integration. But you are making it sound worse than it is.

Beyond - "I'm not in denial, I know there are issues with integration. But you are making it sound worse than it is."

You're more reasonable than fanjo to admit that, anyway .

But seriously, in a single week, we've had four attacks, two clearly terrorist by recent refugees, one a vicious murder by a recent refugee, and one less clear-cut case of the Munich shooter who had an Iranian background but may have subscribed to some other ideology.

Do you think the authorities are in control of this situation? Nothing like it has happened in Germany in years, and it's tragically likely to continue. It's not bigoted to be bloody worried about it!

"Nothing like this had happened in Germany for years"

If you don't count attacks against migrants I guess. The NSU murders weren't that long ago, neither frequent arson and arson attempts

Looks like you all might finally all have your attack you were hoping to justify your positions then

I've tried and tried to understand what kind of mentality could even begin to create a sentence like that

And I've failed

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. There is an attack now every other day for Petes sakes. Yet people STILL close their eyes.

It is interesting how people keep insisting that failure to Muslim bash = being in denial of current affairs. Looking at the bigger picture = minimising

Please tell me what does Muslim bashing = to??? what are you hoping to achieve with your online rants about Muslims?

Puzzled maybe read my post straight after that where I said of course I would never say that anyone was pleased that deaths had occurred. Before getting all outraged.

Proper border controls would be a start. You know, so that criminals and terrorists don't get in. Merkel herself recently admitted (before the recent attacks!) that terrorists had entered with the refugees: www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-extremists-merkel-idUSKCN0ZR1AH.

Is Merkel a Muslim-basher? A bigot? Do tell.

HTH

What do proper border controls consist of then? How do they detect people without any found links to extremism who may commit a violent act?

maybe read my post straight after that where I said of course I would never say that anyone was pleased that deaths had occurred

I did read that, Fanjo; unfortunately your obvious attempts to backpedal can't cancel out what you said about the "attack you were hoping"

OhYouBadBadKitten

"What do proper border controls consist of then? How do they detect people without any found links to extremism who may commit a violent act?"

Do what the British Government is doing - take those refugees (mostly families) who are in the camps in the region and have gone through the two year UN vetting process - they're highly likely to be safe. Taking anyone else depends on a government's willingness to take risks with its own people. And given the events of the last week, be extremely cautious about taking any young men who show the slightest sign of instability.

No I was making my point clear as I knew some righteously offended right winger would attempt to capitalise on it with outrage if I didn't explain further.as is happening.

Should you wish to believe I meant that Puzzled then fair enough. Whatever.

It is rather disingenuous though

Don't so your suggestion is to leave Italy and Greece in the lurch. Lovely island mentality

WidowWadman

"Don't so your suggestion is to leave Italy and Greece in the lurch. Lovely island mentality"

You care about having an open mentality, I care about being safe. We'll see which policy works out better in the months and years ahead.

Fanjo perhaps you'd allow me to recommend that old saying:

If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging

Puzzled I posted the second post pretty much at same time. Hardly back pedalling.

I'm sure there is another old saying here "stop stirring the shit".

"What do proper border controls consist of then? How do they detect people without any found links to extremism who may commit a violent act?"

They look like a country who prepares itself FIRST with proper training, and proper facilities before making such a pronouncement as Merkel made.

You do risk assessments, and act on those risks first, before throwing your own people under the bus for the greater good.

You reassure the public and the migrants that checks are done and everyone is as far as they can tell - safe and not a terrorist. You think of all the potential issues and sort them out first.

What you don't have is porous borders in outer Eu, and no controls within Germany, when there is a terrorist crisis going on. It doesn't help the German citizens and it doesn't help the migrants!

Dontpokemon, that's a reasonable answer.

I can see the issues behind it which is why Merkel and others want to take people from Syria. It takes 18 months to two years at the current numbers, which are at a very low rate compared to the population in the camps. If you want to process many more people to get them out of those conditions the I think that they would die of old age by the time they made it to a country where they can make a life. It would be the children's children you would be rescuing!

Not all of the camps are safe - we see reports of them being bombed. They are also more vulnerable to becoming radicalised there, especially the youngsters - camps are boring, you can't work. Not an excuse for radicalisation of course, but it's a risk unfortunately. It's not a good environment to leave people in, especially not children.

And what do you do with those who don't go into the camps? Many people have friends or families in Europe. they see them making a good life for themselves. They know they have a bed to stay in and someone to support them. A chance at making a new life for themselves. They will have heard of the camps in Africa where people spend their entire life in them. It's no wonder so many bypass the camps to try make their own new life.

I would hope that Italy and Greece weren't counted as the camps in the region?

allthemadmen but some of the recent attacks have been carried out by people who have been checked, have no links to Isis, or any other extremist groups. How would your checks work?
Reassurance means absolutely nothing - it's just words.