Germany :(

[nuttymango]

And now Germany - an axeman has attacked people on a train.
BBC breaking news - www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36827725

A German journalist, so he might well even live in Munich.

Even if you are a journalist, what are the chances of being present and having the camera rolling before two massacres in one week ? Why would a journalist be filming the door of a McDonalds anyway ?

'Lauretta' said the shooting started inside. Most people wouldn't film a random noise and would carry on walking towards it, as they did. A journalist would pick up a camera. If the footage was shot by a journalist it explains both why they were filming when people were still walking towards the man, and why they didn't run as soon as he started firing.

The lorry, as far as I can see, was already in progress when he started filming. Apparently from a hotel room overlooking the beach.

But this is assuming that the footage is by the same person, and not somehow credited to them.

The Washington Post reports that the shooter was a dual German/Iranian national and 18 years old. So, on the face of it not a right wing extremist and not ISIS either.

Yes Elly my first thoughts are another poorly integrated migrant.

News conference

• Apparently alone but investigation continues
• No connection with immigration
• No reason to believe Munich isn't safe for travellers
• Born and raised in Munich
• 18 y/o 'Pupil'
• 'Room' (not house/flat) has been searched (still living with parents?)
• No evidence of IS
• Documentation collected of 'frenzied attacks' found in room. Newspaper articles. Paper entitled "why do students kill". Electronic equipment is being analysed.
• 10 dead, 27 injured, 3 critical

• Area around mcd's still closed but some others reopened
• Public transport pretty much back to normal
• 2300 police working last night, 800 working now
• Police firefight with perpetrator in car park but PM shows he sustained no injuries. Only one shot injury in head area, apparent suicide.

• 9mm glock that had serial number removed
• Rucksack contained more than 300 additional rounds
• Speculation re mental treatment
• No criminal record
• Victim of crime in 2010 and 2012

He was born in Germany, and grew up in Germany. Material relating to amok found in his home, nothing in relation to politics. Nothing to do with religion or integration of migrants.

• All victims are from Munich and surrounding area, mostly around late teens/early twenties
• Unknown yet if perpetrator was aiming at particular people or aiming at random. Investigating whether he knew the victims.
• His residence is the only one searched
• No suicide note found as yet, no clear motive found yet
• Parents still need to be interrogated fully
• No intelligence on perpetrators lifestyle as yet, apart from that he is a 'pupil'. We do not wish to share his particular type of schooling.
• Alcohol/drug tox results not yet back
• He did not have a firearms licence
• Relevant material found re 'frenzied attacks' but no comment as to whether this includes shooting games as per speculation
• Mental history is being looked into but is not at a point of commenting yet

It's certainly sounding more and more like a troubled young person and not a terrorist.

It reminds me of Columbine.

Yy toast. And still on the news they are talking about 'uncontrolled immigration'. Wtf?!

Beyond, its total pure racism. Nothing more or less.

The events of the past month are NOT an excuse or a justification for any of it. Whatever anyone says. Reactions of this nature are not understandable they are just bigoted because there is no appraisal of evidence and such kneejerk reactions end up being part of the problem not the solution.

It does raise questions though about the future. For the most part I think that refugees just want to get away from violence. They need to be given a shot at life though, as if the rampant racism continues or gets worse then their life chances are worse and that produces a situation where the next generation who didn't experience what their parents fled from, build up anger and resentment which is compounded by prejudge.

Police are now saying there is an 'obvious link' with Anders Breivik. Whatever that means.

Desperately sad situation. Amazes me though that one teenager was able to cause so much confusion and havoc and for so long.

"For the most part I think that refugees just want to get away from violence. They need to be given a shot at life though, as if the rampant racism continues or gets worse then their life chances are worse and that produces a situation where the next generation who didn't experience what their parents fled from, build up anger and resentment which is compounded by prejudge."

So it's all the West's fault we're being murdered? Gotcha.

Re the conflicting name reports upthread. The name in The Mirror matches that on other sites (D.A.S.), but some are going with 'David.S' and others with 'Ali.S'. One can only speculate as to why each particular news agency picks which name to go with, when someone has more than one...

Mirror article also repeats the speculation that a Facebook account was set up to lure people to mcd's. The article is a few hours old now, but other info matches that which was officially released later.

Having a quick read through Breivik, the only thing that seems to be a link with the information already 'out there' re DAS is a possible mh diagnosis? Is that link too tenuous?

Yorkie, I thought it was quite clear that IS are trying to incite racial hatred? One attack leads to more division, leads to radicalisation of those who feel the division is unfair, leads to more attacks, leads to greater division as populations feel even more under attack, leads to further radicalisation, ad infinitum.

BeyondBeyondBeyondBeyondBeyond - the only thing that's "clear" is that they're trying to kill us - the rest is speculation. If your theory is correct, then what is your solution?

okay.

I don't have a solution, I'm not a counter terrorism expert.
What's yours?

I did just see a 'religion test' suggested as a solution on Reddit. Cause people who commit mass murder apparently have issues with lying!

Beyond, there are reports that he his WhatsApp avatar was a photo of Breivik.

And Yorkie, things do not happen in a bubble. There is a problem with parts of Western Culture. We are not 'the good guys' versus the 'bad guys'. The whole narrative based upon that is just wholly blinkered and wrong. It does nothing to address underlying issues. The trouble is that people like you want to think in black and white rather than grey terms as it makes it simple to understand.

Yes we have played a part in this. It does not mean we are responsible for it. It means we haven't exactly helped the situation, and we do things to aggravate existing problems.

I'm sorry that offends you, but tough shit. I am sick of reading comments about how its refugees fault, when its got fuck all to do with refugees but its a nice opportunity to be a dickhead and racist. I find that fucking offensive.

where is it said this is all refugees fault?

"Yes we have played a part in this. It does not mean we are responsible for it. It means we haven't exactly helped the situation, and we do things to aggravate existing problem"

As this is playing out aside from the fact he is iranian German, like other attackers have been Tunisian French, Belgium morocco, it seems more like a lonely bullied teenager taking revenge on his peers at the moment.

So how are we responsible for that? What more can the west do?

I think it's useful to clarify, of course, that it's Western foreign policy. Innocent individuals in mo way deserve to be killed. In any country.
Unfortunately our foreign policy has a tendency to treat lives in other regions as expendable.
I agree nothing happens in a vacuum. Personally I think Bush and Blair's little misadventure is coming back to bite.
But anyway by the sounds of it all this has nothing to do with this latest incident.

RedTooth - Merkel herself admitted - twelve days ago - that terrorists smuggled themselves in with the refugees, from whom they were indistinguishable: www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-extremists-merkel-idUSKCN0ZR1AH. Is she an evil bigoted racist?

Four days ago, an Afghan/Pakistani refugee went on a murderous rampage with an axe on a train in Germany, influenced by IS: www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/82279505/Islamic-State-flag-found-in-room-of-German-train-axe-attacker. Are we supposed to pretend that didn't happen?

So you'll pardon me for wanting very tight controls on who is allowed into Europe. What was that you said earlier about "no appraisal of evidence"?

Madmen, I personally wasn't talking about the Munich shooting in my IS post, I was talking about IS terrorism. The problem with having a thread about a IS claimed terrorist attack that became the main thread for a second (assumed to be related, later found not to be) attack