Mass shooting in Orlando

[MissJM1]

How sad. Inside a gay nightclub, they say there are hostages and the shooter could have an explosive

God, this is horrible.

I saw it this morning then had a really busy day so didn't see the news until just now, couldn't believe it said 50 people. I can't get my head around one person killing so many. Those poor people.

"I read earlier that per capita head, Switzerland has as many guns as the US. Can anyone corroborate?"

I'm not absolutely sure that it's true, but it is plausible, as such high numbers of the population are reservists.

So it seems a much closer fit to the Second Amendment: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. than the practice in modern US.

*6:30pm

Truly horrible.

Remember that probably about 50% of Americans (possibly more) don't support the unrestricted right to bear arms. I've been chatting to several of my liberal, democrat voting American friends, and they are horrified, shocked, and very angry. As one of them put it, she's so angry that there will just be yet another outpouring of empty rhetoric from politicians over there, and then nothing will be done.

According to SKY a senator has commented that there is an ISIS link, and so there is lots of chatter right now about that possibility.

Awful awful awful. It looks like press conferences who were blaming ISIS are not now correct and it could be homophobia. I'm just afraid that if it is an ISIS terrorist attack (even if it's a lone gunman), that will take away from the discussion which should yet again take place on US gun laws.

For the poster asking about Switzerland and their guns. Yes you are right, but all youth take part in National Service and the big difference is - you can't get hold of ammunition.

This article just above covers it.

But whilst I might link articles and talk of gun control blah blah, nothing takes away from the fact there are 50 families out there grieving, along with very many praying that their kids pull through after horrific injuries. My thoughts are with them.

Agreed Roussette. I fear that certain political persuasions will jump on an ISIS link and make this into an anti-Muslim rant, instead of focusing on the problem the U.S. has with gun crime. The impression I get is that this is one lone person acting on their hate of the LGBT community, according to reports from his father (previously witnessing the gunman angered by seeing two men kissing).

Truly terrifying for all involved, and their friends and family. A very sad day

What a tragedy :( So much human lives cruelly stolen.

In response to the posts that talk about "why can't they just ban guns" I'd like to offer my own thoughts as someone that carries daily. You seem to think that if we banned guns we wouldn't have gun crime, I don't that would happen. Guys who commit murder don't even think twice about carrying an illegal gun, all you achieve is maybe adding an extra charge we can throw at them if we take them alive. My gun is my protection should I ever need it, banning it would be like legislating against my right to defend myself.

I feel uneasy when gun control people exploit these shootings to argue for their policies. Seriously, people have died, there's a lot of grief, maybe don't use a tragedy to help boost your politics? And in fairness I see that kind of attitude too from some people on "my side", there are many proponents of the right to bear arms take these shootings and try to say that if we did things their way, there would be less shootings. So there is fault on both sides, and it's pretty disrespectful to those who died.

New statesman I think you'll find that some guns are banned in Scotland. It's prohibited to have a handgun for instance.

This is just tragic.

Agreed Roussette. Whatever people feel about guns the main thing we should be remembering is that there are 50 people who now can't take part in that discussion, or any discussion ever again. Our thoughts should be with them.

Seriously, people have died, there's a lot of grief, maybe don't use a tragedy to help boost your politics?

Absolutely. But this is MN, so as long as you're promoting liberal politics, nothing is sacred.

Terrible terrible news.

"gun control people" are exploiting these shootings to argue for their policies TO SAVE PEOPLES LIVES.

Seriously, people have died, there's a lot of grief, maybe don't use a tragedy to help boost your politics

I am so fed up with this. Let's use it. Use this opportunity to show how fucked up America is about guns. And yes, I am an American. We are fucked up about guns. People have died. Praying and mourning achieves nothing.

Two members of my family will be busy cleaning up the "tragedy" today, clearing bodies out of operating rooms and certifying causes of deaths. Doctors who should be saving lives instead of witnessing horrific, mass casualty death. Doctors who should be home with their families, enjoying a happy Sunday day off but who are called out to work to clean up this mess caused by GUNS.

So take your pro-gun carrying "defense" out of my sight. Read this and weep or read this and give up your guns. You wouldn't need to protect yourself if people weren't allowed to carry murder weapons.

I know I am an emotionally incontinent old bint, but that picture of people lining up outside blood banks just had me well up.

IMO the horrific atrocity and these volunteer symbolise everything about the worst and the best in humans.

I wish politics and commercial self-interest could be taken out of the whole gun control debate. I know that is not in any way realistic.

You seem to think that if we banned guns we wouldn't have gun crime, I don't that would happen
You are quite right that gun crime would still exist. However, as shown by the experience of other countries where guns have been banned in response to rising gun crime, the rate of gun deaths has dropped through the floor. America has now such a huge problem that it would take a very, very long time to fix it, but the only way of ever hoping to reduce gun deaths and mass shootings, is by reducing the number of guns.

It is tragic that this happens, and happens too often in the US.
My heart goes out to all of the innocent people affected by this.
And I HATE the fact that this will be used to spread more hate towards Muslims.

kateemo Yes, I agree with all you say. I'm just waiting for Obama to come on, his statement is due soon. He won't have words to describe this absolutely abhorrent tragedy.

Whilst I agree with you chilledwarmth, i.e. our thoughts should be with the bereaved. Yet, how many more times can our thoughts be with bereaved families without the US taking action? Yet again, like I've argued with you before, there is no need for anyone to carry a semi automatic weapon let alone a weapon full stop. But I know your opinion on this and we will never agree. Last I remember you were urging weapons to be freely available in the UK.... and that went down like a cup of cold sick.

I hope (probably against all hope) that maybe this time, this absolutely tragic mass shooting, might bring about some good.

I hope that all the injured pull through, I wish there to be some answers somewhere, there are some desolate families out there today, poor poor people.

Hey Kateemo, first of all you are incorrect that no one would need to protect themselves if people didn't carry "murder weapons". Even taking into account that almost any item can be used to kill, people could still use their hands to hurt other people, we'd still need a way of protecting ourselves against those guys.

Your last sentence is basically trying to say that we should either accept these shootings or give up guns. I'm not giving up my gun, but I do want to work at stopping shootings like this. Some people will say that you can't do that without giving it up but I reject that, there are things that can be done. Maybe if both sides of the argument could put aside their differences and work on that.

I suspect Obama is beating his head off his desk wondering how many times he can make a speech hoping that this is the last time he needs to make a speech about a mass shooting....

Chilledwarmth.

I think the idea that 'both sides' can work together would be helped enormously by gun owners recognising that owning guns isn't making a safer society.

What rubbish chilled.

Even taking into account that almost any item can be used to kill, people could still use their hands to hurt other people, we'd still need a way of protecting ourselves against those guys Do you honestly think there would be 50 grieving families today if that murdering man couldn't get hold of a semi automatic weapon or indeed a gun? He would hardly have been able to murder all those people with his hands. We get by pretty damn well in the UK without "a way to protect ourselves". You need to think outside the box.

Maybe one day even you will have to give up your gun. Let's hope there will be a sea of charnge in the US.

Pagwatch I watched somewhere a mash up of all of Obama's speeches after all the mass shootings siince he became President. It was so moving, his sadness and frustration was so plain to see. Speech after speech after speech, I'm just not sure what more words he can say.

It's just heartbreaking that the answer for a lot of US citizens is more guns. On another thread someone linked to bulletproof backpacks for primary school kids. Yes, I agree with kateemo, the US are fucked up as far as guns are concerned.

It is very possible there would be 50 grieving families even if guns didn't exist. Terrorists are quite capable of using anything to kill large numbers of people, bombs, planes, you name it. There may be changes in legislation at some point, I don't know. I can say for sure that I won't hand over my gun, and the last time a government tried to confiscate our guns it didn't work out so well for them.

It is so fucked up and my heart is with those families and victims, as it is with everyone the world over who deals with fear and pain. I have no idea what the answer is with gun control, unfortunately if someone is so twisted and messed up in the head to commit awful acts like that I think they would find a way even if guns weren't so easily available.