Mass shooting in Orlando

[MissJM1]

How sad. Inside a gay nightclub, they say there are hostages and the shooter could have an explosive

So... you're being dismissive of the role of Christianity in the killings of African LGBT people.

I don't know which bit you do not understand. Islam dominates Africa.
Just a few: North Africa (muslim), Chad, Sudan, Congo, Libya, Egypt, Burkina (all muslim), North Nigeria (muslim) and South Nigeria (has the african form of christianity amalgamated with tradition, as well as straight-from-the bible christianity).

All African countries are ill-disposed towards homosexuality, regardless of faith.

I would say I'm more I abhor anti-freedom behaviour. All of of us have the right to exist we are free live our lives as we would wish. If someone's way of life is not in accordance with what you believe you do not have the right to impose. Extending the courtesy of tolerance may even go some way to making you question your views.

Africa, now that is a huge and complex question, one that will take many decades or possibly even centuries to change, it is not however impossible. I believe that it caused a split in the Anglican church precisely because of this issue. There are so many other issues behind this including poverty, education and wealth distribution that it becomes not just a question of belief.

We need to call out intolerance wherever it exists, especially in the public sphere. How would ol Shabba have liked it if someone had a go at him for his race?

sportinguista does that anti-freeom behavior extend to gun control? If the fact that I and others carry a weapon for protection is not in accordance with what you believe, you don't have a right to impose and implement restrictions?

Very much in agreement, sportinguista.

Personally I am not in favour of weapons of any kind simply because not everyone can be trusted to behave themselves. Rather let us say that no one has the freedom to take the life of another because everybody has the freedom to continue living. If nobody had weapons or there was no fear of attack I guess nobody would need to carry a weapon for protection. It's the fear of attack that makes people carry weapons by and large. But in practice anything can actually become a weapon even a pencil if you know how to use it. Gun control is merely the restriction of weapons to those who do not present a risk, it can be minimised but not eliminated. America has it's own questions to ask regarding this, again I cannot impose what I think on people from another country - they need to make their own decisions.

Thanks for acknowledging that people from a foreign country don't really have a right to tell us what our laws should be. It's amazing how many mumsnetters who decide that despite not knowing the first thing about what our laws actually are and never having held a gun themselves, they are somehow experts on the subject who know what our laws "need" to be.

I agree with what you say about "if there was no fear of attack I guess nobody would need to carry a weapon for protection". The problem is that no matter how much laws you implement, you can't actually remove the possibility of attack. I have said to several people in my area who believe in gun control that I will hand over my gun on the spot if they can show me a guarantee that I'll never have to defend myself. To date none have been able to do that. The way I see it is that unless you can absolutely guarantee my safety, you have no right to take away the thing that might be my best chance of survival.

HuffPo: Donald Trump’s ‘Ask The Gays’ Boast Sees Him Delivered With Crushing Responses
‘Go home wig. Goodbye wig. GO AWAY. BYE WIG.’

Just like people who normally didn't care about women's safety suddenly decided to show support for women's right to be safe on the street when Cologne happened.

Actually, I've recently spoken about Cologne on here and another thread and about the MN women who would not sign a petition because in their world there is no guilty party.

There are 9 Cologne threads on MN - that's 9,000 posts, take a look. We started that thread as soon as we heard about the NYEve attacks. Needless to say, I signed the petition that was put together, but for some reason it was not popular with the weasly types on MN who declined to sign because it was condemning the attackers. (Ooh dear, mustn't identify perpertrators, 'cos that's not inclusive).

I know that Ego and Pausing did not sign, but now refer to Cologne. Bloody cheek, I say.

My daughter's friend is one of the victims in Orlando though he survived. If Omar Maheen was a suppressed gay man then he was clearly in turmoil, and the driver appears to be the impossibility of coming out to his Muslim family. If that is so, then he ensured that not only would he take out a few gay people but would also be shot by the cops so that he could never have that conversation with his family.

If he was not a gay man, then the driver is still the same: his religion, which absolutely and irrevocably deems the practice of homosexuality to be a sin.

As regards weapons, only handguns should be allowed to be sold to the public. No high-velocity rifles, no assault rifles, no automatic weapons of any kind. You do not need an automatic handgun to defend yourself against an intruder.

Yer what? Where am I referring to Cologne on this thread?

But since you're advanced searching me, you'll probably see that I did sign a petition. But not yours.

Because after much watching and waiting to sign, during the extensive haggling over the wording (I lurked), I became concerned about the fellow travellers and what it would end up being claimed as "support" for - regardless of any good intent on the threads. I know I'm not the only one who dropped out because of that.

Frankly, the thread with the OP claiming sexual assault was all the fault of Communist feminists was quite enough of a red flag. So to speak.

Chilipepper said ==== and yet people nonetheless want to claim this has nothing to do with the religion or its followers even when polls confirm that many muslims do have a negative view of homosexuality. And people criticising muslims about aspects of their faith are called bigots. How did this happen?

Of course you are correct, but we will not see a change in our lifetimes I fear. I hv noticed about MN and other sites === not allowed to point out cruel practices and beliefs that some faiths adhere to. If you do, you see a whoosh of posters coming to the defence of indefensible acts and the kernel of the thread gets sidelined.

The bottom line is == you can dislike or hate anyone you want, but you cannot do something about it. THAT is the difference between people who are driven to kill because they despise how others live and feel it is their religious duty to rectify, and those who choose to go their separate ways.

Pausing - I have not searched you. I took a leap of faith by stating that neither you nor Ego had signed the Cologne petition. And you confirmed it. Women letting women down.

*you see a whoosh of posters coming to the defence of indefensible acts and the kernel of the thread gets sidelined.&

Couldn't agree with you more, Peter.

Wrong.

I have signed a Cologne petition about women's rights.

Just not yours.

HTH.

And BTW: "I know that Ego and Pausing did not sign"

You're really not too concerned about truth, are you? Good to see you confirm that you make it up as you go along and just hope some turns out right.

Did you make up the contents of your other posts on this thread, too?

Very late to this thread.

The night before this happened, my gf and I were talking about how disappointed we couldn't make pride again this year. Oddly, my gf for the first time ever, said that actually she wasn't sure she felt safe going and was it actually a matter of time before they strike our community. I am normally the overly cautious one, so was very surprised to hear this from my gf. You can imagine how shocked we were when we saw the news the next day. Not to mention incredibly sad and angry.

My thoughts are with all the victims and their families. Another senseless tragedy.

Go on. Tell me how you keep LGBT people safe in the UK

I do not work in law enforcement. I am in domestic violence support.

From your posts today you did not sound like someone who had been particularly exercised over Cologne, Pausing. Yes there was to-ing and fro-in with the wording because I am told the word limit was ungenerous. So, no staying power then.