Mass shooting in Orlando

[MissJM1]

How sad. Inside a gay nightclub, they say there are hostages and the shooter could have an explosive

And this whole "it's people who kill people, not guns" argument where they say "if they're determined they'll kill anyway": why doesn't that turn on its head: if you're determined to kill your intruder/attacker you'll be able to do it, whether you have a gun or not? so you don't need to have one either!

in fact we shouldn't be producing and selling the evil things.

Deathtoheadlice very good point!

And it is absolute nonsense to say the C of E is about as liberal as you can get, the Episcopal Church is far more liberal.

This is true. The US Episcopal Church is now under suspension by the Anglican Communion, whose mother church is the C of E, for its acceptance of same sex marriage.

I would like to know chilled if you agree that the assault rifle/ semi automatic rifle should be banned in the US? Surely that would be a start? Is there any justification at all in your head for the general public owning an assault rifle?

Apparently the last three massacres were all with the same sort of semi automatic rifle - hence the huge numbers of victims.

From US press -
"Immediately after the Sandy Hook massacre, sales of the AR-15 skyrocketed across the US. “The AR-15, it’s kind of fashionable…The young generation likes them, the assault-looking guns,” a gun store proprietor in Pasadena, Maryland, told the New York Times at the time. A photo-heavy blog post by the National Rifle Association (NRA) celebrates the assault rifle’s combat-ready aesthetic appeal, encouraging gun-owners to make their AR-15 “even cooler” by adding a silencer."

Surely you can't justify this?

In Florida, to buy one of these deadly weapons, you don't need a gun licence, a background check and there is no limit to how many you can buy. The killer this time bought one a week ago in Florida. Gun owners in Florida are protected by law from being entered onto any sort of state registry or any other sort of record as to where this gun is going or who you are. Is this right? It's an instrument of war designed for the battlefield - yet anyone can get one with no redress. Surely banning these would be a start? The parents of the poor children of Sandy Hook tried to mount a lawsuit against the makers of this weapon, yet there is a 2005 law protecting gun makers from lawsuits
Chilled can you not condemn these weapons or are all weapons OK by you?

The C of E can not marry same sex couples. So no, not that liberal.

In Texas you are now allowed a concealed handgun license to carry their loaded, concealed weapon in universities.

After the Sandy Hook massacre, sales of the AR-15 skyrocketed across the US.

The National Rifle Association celebrates assault rifle’s combat-ready appeal.

Why do Americans believe going to university is like going into combat. Why do they need weapons than can hold 100 bullets and commit mass murder in seconds. Who are they defending themselves from? Are they not psychopathic?

As I said, I worked for the c of e and my (vicar) boss said that he would marry a gay couple.

It would probably mean some kind of blessing rather than the full bells and whistles, but he was more than happy to preside. He was also extremely happy when the female bishop was announced, baptised babies if unmarried couples (and gay couples) and married divorcees. I did meet vicars who I suspect would hold no truck with any of the above, but my vicar was a very nice guy.

I'm not gay...we just used to discuss things at work (I worked for the c if e). My boss was the vicar and said he would.

My DH isn't Christian and we had a church service. I guess it depends on the vicar.

If there are so many people in the US carrying guns 'for their own protection' then where are they when these mass killings happen? Why are these murderers not being taken down by civilians?

Presumably because carrying guns for protection, especially against assault rifles doesn't work.

However, anyone who wants to keep their gun is going to interpret any situation in their favour, however bonkers it is. People who say things like 'Sandy Hook happened not because the shithead murderer was armed, but because the teachers weren't armed' just can't be reasoned with and probably shouldn't be allowed to vote.

IN ONE YEAR ON AVERAGE (all ages)
→ More than 100,000 people in America are shot in murders, assaults, suicides, & accidents.

That mean the NRA is close to helping kill as many people as Hitler did during the holocaust.

Well.... over 24 hours and no comment whatsoever from the NRA. here says it

I could write the NRA press release now!

"If only everyone in the nightclub had been packing then they would have shot back and that would have saved 49 lives. What a shame that gun ownership, use, training and carrying isn't compulsory, to make sure everyone is prepared for the worst."

Everyone armed is NRA solution to everything.

Good grief, I've just seen a conspiracy theory on Facebook that the whole thing was staged by the FBI on behalf of the lobbyists who want to get rid of guns.

Right. If only I could block the moron who liked that post, but unfortunately she's a relative.

You can unfollow without de-friending on FB :).

At the nightclub, a police officer did shoot back which led to hostage taking (it seems). The NRA will seize on that as proof that a gun-carrying good-guy is to credit for stopping even more deaths. :(

Hold on to your hats, the Trump is giving a speech right now on how he is working with the NRA to make every American safe.

Dont make guns illegal make muslims illegal.

Actually, I do think that Western liberal democracies that cherish the rule of law and have standards believe in equal opportunities for the treatment of all citizens, should be taking a cold hard look at Muslim ghettos. I don't think all Muslims are terrorists, far from it, but I do not delude myself that their belief system and creed is compatible with free speech. Nor am I racist. If you want to live in a modern society with all its ancillary benefits, you have to accept ABSOLUTELY freedom of speech, and that includes the freedom for anyone to say things you dispute, the equality of women without requiring any man's permission to travel or work outwith the home, free gender preferences, that arranged marriage is a transaction rather than personal choice, and equal access to education and opportunity to pursue self development. That way lies progress. If I am saying things you disagree with, feel free to disagree, but convince me through the power of debate. I do not listen to anyone telling me that superstitions based on nomadic life in 6th century Arabia religion has any place in the modern world.

I was wondering when the following gobshites would surface:

NRA
Conspiracy nuts
Trump

just feel so bloody sad.

A friend of a friend killed herself after the Paris shootings. I don't feel like that but I'm beginning to understand why people do.

knowing that people have such hatred towards other people just because of what they do in the bedroom or what ever other reason that's so fucking petty. Knowing how terrified those people must have been, knowing they were going to die and not being able to comprehend the pain their families are going to go through now forever. I can't bear it.

Sorry I must have PMT. Just have no other words really. And I'm new to MN so don't know how to do a sad face. :-(

Citizensmith it is terrible. Terrible. I agree with you.

So does Christianity. Many UK churches will not marry gay people.

that's a far cry from killing them.

how many mainstream christians are against homosexuality? no ask the same about muslims.