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Terrible news from Sweden

184 replies

JaneJefferson · 26/01/2016 21:13

This case is so sad. A young care worker has been killed and she was alone in the child refugee centre at night. I can't believe she was left alone to care for 11 refugees after all the recent concerns. There are various news articles about it on the web.

OP posts:
PausingFlatly · 29/01/2016 15:33

With a population of 64 million, it would take approx 8 million men (and no women at all) arriving to shift the UK's population to 125 men to 100 women.

So it's not very likely in the UK.

laplumeofmyaunt · 29/01/2016 16:54

The shift in population % between the sexes in Sweden is being discussed on More or Less of Radio 4 now - worth a listen on the iplayer if you missed it.

timelytess · 29/01/2016 17:50

There is concern that many of these children aren't children and are just exploiting the system
Not just in Sweden. Teaching in the UK I sometimes had 'children' in my classroom who were actually men in their twenties. Of course I objected to this, for the safety of my 14-15 year olds, and the school pursued it, but the word came back that Social Services said 'You mustn't say that because it upsets them!' If they've thrown away their passports and claim to be fourteen, they are fourteen, apparently.

AMouseLivedinaWindMill · 29/01/2016 18:10

Pausing

You have just totally written off Zimbabwe in your post, and not provided any links or stats there, and used it as an excuse to say they have not been a rise in crime?

Bonkers!!

I have been to Zimbabwe and spent time with leading figures in Save the Children and i have family there!

I do not doubt, however there will be lots of issues as you describe, as there are in all countries, but its never been mentioned.

Why instead dont you look at the same figures for rise in crime since we had people from Poland Lithuania and Romania here!!

AMouseLivedinaWindMill · 29/01/2016 18:12

In fact, here you are in 2016 extolling your continued freedoms despite living in a country with 110,000 Zimbabweans in it. You don't seem have needed the blocking of them to continue these freedoms

^^ dreadful comment!!

AMouseLivedinaWindMill · 29/01/2016 18:22

Just found my own links and its shocking to read. The article I read said it was due to a break down of the family under Mugabe.

AMouseLivedinaWindMill · 29/01/2016 18:24

"The justice system has collapsed in Zimbabwe. A syndicate of men uses its economic and political muscle to escape justice. We also have 10,000 boys going to train as youth militia; they become vicious and make girls succumb to sex through fear."

"The economic meltdown, political violence and starvation in Zimbabwe over the past decade have driven numerous people abroad, with 3 million fleeing to South Africa alone. Often they leave their children in the care of extended family or friends and try to send money home"

PausingFlatly · 29/01/2016 18:45

AMouse, those are my personal experiences in Zimbabwe, the experiences of my nearest and dearest, and news stories I've read in Zimbabwe (just a few that particularly stuck - child rape cases were several a week).

This was mostly before the economic meltdown.

There are many things I love about Zim and indeed about South Africa. But I'm not blind to their faults.

PausingFlatly · 29/01/2016 18:55

I don't often talk about these things, because I know there are people just dying to seize on stories of savage Africans and obviously one African is a rapist = all Africans are rapists.

So, silenced by fear of WhataboutTHEMery most of the time.

But I thought it was relevant to this thread, because we were talking about what happens when large numbers of people arrive suddenly in Europe from hugely misogynist cultures. And the UK's recently had an example of it.

(Disclaimer that influxes won't be exact carbon copies of each other.)

OneWingWonder · 29/01/2016 19:02

PausingFlatly

'(Disclaimer that influxes won't be exact carbon copies of each other.)'

No kidding. Zimbabwe and ME/NA have completely different religions, cultures, and ethnic backgrounds.

Apart from that, a very relevant point!

PausingFlatly · 29/01/2016 19:09

ME/NA has completely different religions, cultures and ethnic backgrounds.

wickedlazy · 29/01/2016 19:28

Do refugees get a talk or any written material about the culture of the country they're in? In their language. Is there a word in the most common languages for feminism? Do the woman know they don't have to wear head coverings etc? (In country they were in previously it may have been illegal).

fakenamefornow · 29/01/2016 19:46

One thing that puzzles me is about identifying migrants. Why don't they just DNA test people? Is it too expensive? Are there human rights issues with it? Is it not accurate enough?

If you use DNA technology you can also identify family groups are really related. You can't change it or fake it. I think you can even use it to identify country of origin although obviously this couldn't be 100% conclusive but it would be one extra tool.

wickedlazy · 29/01/2016 20:13

A lady white, british lady I know was gang raped in South Africa. A mutual friend told me one day, and it did explain a lot about her personality (very timid of men, didn't want to be alone with them etc). It was 30 years ago, her husband and children were out, and a gang of men broke in, did what they did and left her laying there. Not sure what happened next, but I know they came "home" not long after. Also my stepdads friend was shot in the head in South Africa during a car hijacking. You couldn't pay me to go to Africa. Any part of the continent.

Agree with everything Fishinminepuddle wrote. Integration is key.

wickedlazy · 29/01/2016 20:18

Dna would be an excellent way to identify refugees, but as far as I know the facilities are not there. I think in the uk we are quite badly back logged with police testing dna. Unless it would be done privately, but then who pays? Surely it would be cheaper in the long run to set up and staff more labs, and would be better regulated and could be used for research on dna not refugees! or civil cases, once refugee intake stops.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 29/01/2016 20:50

Totally derailing but I'm very shocked to read that about Zimbabwe. My DS1 and DD2 have friends from Zimbabwe and we've got to know three families fairly well over several years. The adults are professionals and devout Christians, the kids are lovely hardworking kids who work jobs and study hard. All massive but gentle, easy going people. Could it be that only the professional, and more law abiding people, managed to escape over here?

PausingFlatly · 30/01/2016 00:55

Almost all my Zim friends and family are absolutely cracking people, just as you describe. It doesn't seem to be dependent on education or profession, they're just fabulous folk. One of my closest friends left school at 13, pre-Independence, because her family couldn't afford it (very many Zimbabweans are well-educated of course).

Seems a country doesn't need the majority to be arseholes before the arseholes have a serious impact. There's also a gulf between how people would act themselves, and how they're prepared to tolerate others acting, especially when such behaviour has been normal all their lives.

AnthonyBlanche · 30/01/2016 13:29

This is awful news and very well demonstrates one of the reasons why Europe should not accept young male able bodied migrants who are pretending to be asylum seekers. They should be screened at the border of the first European country they enter and sent back. Taking people from refugee camps is the only way to limit the amount of bogus asylum seekers and I am very pleased that is the approach being taken by the UK.

DespicableBee · 30/01/2016 14:00

In the photo he looks about 25 not 15 😕

TheNewStatesman · 30/01/2016 14:55

"With a population of 64 million, it would take approx 8 million men (and no women at all) arriving to shift the UK's population to 125 men to 100 women."

No, I think you are misunderstanding what is being talked about here. It is not the overall gender imbalance of a society that matters so much. It is the specific imbalance among certain age groups.

The overall gender imbalance for Sweden is not that bad--certainly far less than that of China or India. But what makes it toxic is the fact that the gender imbalance is concentrated around the young people. The gender imbalance among other groups doesn't matter. But oversupplies of young men compared to young women can create a dangerously unstable situation.

To cause an imbalance of males to females exclusively among British 15-25 year olds (say), you wouldn't need anywhere near as many as 8 million. Not saying that such large numbers are likely to happen, but just explaining how this stuff works.

GourmetSoup · 30/01/2016 15:12

Surely it is only common sense to think that an influx of men from misogynistic cultures will increase dangers for women. How else can the spike in sexual assaults across Europe this year be explained.

SonyaAtTheSamovar · 30/01/2016 15:18

Gourmet you will need the EU leadership to explain that to me too!

LuluJakey1 · 30/01/2016 17:13

And me!
Look at what has happened in communities like Bradford and Birmingham where large communities of muslims settled and have been allowed to establish religious academies purporting to be mainstream, local, schools. OfSTED uncovered extremism being taught, girls being separated from boys and repressed, female white teachers being discriminated against, British customs being ignored and criticised and challenged (some white British children attend these schools), bullying by male muslim leaders who are governors. Not in one or two but in whole chains of these schools run by extremist muslim academy chains.
They have now discovered there are illegal schools being run which are teaching extremism to the pont if teaching terrorism, encouraging martyrism, anti-British propaganda and hatred.

My PIL live in Bradford until 3 years ago and are recently retired teachers. They have experienced some shocking things at the hands of local muslim leaders who have established themselves and their cronies as majority parties on governing bodies and then taken control. My MIL - who is a tough woman not easily shaken- was an Assistant Head and found herself dealing daily with the verbal and sexual bullying of female staff and girls by large groups of muslim boys- who the governors refused to sanction in any serious way.

My SIL moved up to the north east near us last year because she loves it up here. She had got to the point where the house she lived in was the only house in her street lived in by someone not an immigrant. The area became scarey. Gangs of young muslim men on the streets day and night standing with their faces hidden, smoking, shouting abuse as she passed , throwing things, making sexual gestures. Many of the older men were the same. All of these men found the fact that she and her girlfriend were lesbians something they felt they could say what they liked about. They were threatened with gang rape. She moved out of her house and lost money on the sale and into a rented flat and then up here.

Not all of Bradford is like that. Lots of it is much more mixed. But there are areas of it which are awful. My PIL and SIL are tolerant, warm, kind people. They have not made up what happened to them. They actually are very subdued by it and worry about what the future holds in Bradford, especially for young people- of all backgrounds. If it was not for DH's very elderly grandma, PIL would probably move too- although they now live in a village outside of Bradford.

HermioneWeasley · 30/01/2016 17:31

Completely agree lulu and I recognise the Bradford you describe.

The faux naivety of people who can't see the problem with thousands of young men from highly misogynistic cultures coming here staggers me. And there's an undertone of "if it's only a few more women being assaulted it will get lost in the numbers"

NO! Zero women being sexually assaulted is the acceptable number, but I won't sanction something that increases the risk even by one.

AnthonyBlanche · 30/01/2016 19:52

Best make sure none of us who are unhappy with mass immigration from misogynistic cultures vote Labour. Corbyn thinks the UK should welcome everyone from the camps at Calais, apparently that won't encourage anyone else to try the same the same thing Hmm. The man is an idiot.

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