Terrible news from Sweden

[JaneJefferson]

This case is so sad. A young care worker has been killed and she was alone in the child refugee centre at night. I can't believe she was left alone to care for 11 refugees after all the recent concerns. There are various news articles about it on the web.

In actual fact, maybe this whole situation is a beautiful opportunity for the government to instruct schools to promote good behaviour in middle school, addressing cyber bullying, Porn etc. not once or twice during a half hearted assembly but as a firm strategy.

There should be guidance, and campaigns in school and boys and girls should learn how to behave and what to expect as they are growing into adults and future citizens. They should be given tools and boundaries.

Yes, totally agree. What they shouldn't do, but I fear they quite possibly will, is not do anything and expect the girls to deal with these incidents, for fear of being accused of racism.

Completely agree again, venus. That serves no one.

And fish.

1000 complaints to police about sexual assaults in Cologne on New Year's Eve.
34 men dentified from CCTV. 32 North African.

This is a cultural thing. No one is saying white european men never mistreat or sexually assault women. However, mass, organised (so the police believe) sexual assaults like this are staggeringly shocking and it is a cultural thing- an attitude towards women that exists amongst many men from the areas of the world named - middle east, Africa. I, for one, do not want those men an their attitudes here. I don't think that is unreasonable. I am insulted by the women on here comparing them to the attitudes of men in this country- it does not exist en masse in this country. We are lucky that we have equality in many ways. It has been hard won and we continue to work for better but we have it.

I can walk the streets where we live, the north east, and not be scared of assault in 99% of places. I earn a high salary. I am educated. I own property. I dress as I please. I treat men and am treated by men as an equal. I behave as suits me without fear of abuse or violence or intimidation by groups of men. I don't intend to have those freedoms threatened so that the refugees who have those attitudes can have their freedom and live as they choose. I value mine and my way of life more.

I too do not intend to have my freedoms threatened so that men can do what they want. I too value being able to leave the house with only a low risk of assault. And to be in the house with a low risk of assault. I too will continue to work for better.

I do not think purging the country of men of middle eastern or African origin will achieve this.

Achieve what?

Yes I was just thinking that "enable" is a better word; or "greatly assist".

I think stopping tens of thousands of middle eastern and african men with these attitudes from entering the country- and then more after them as their families arrive- will certainly protect my freedoms. Look at what happened in Cologne!

Look what happened here.

Where's the spike in sexual assault figures from the arrival of the Zimbabweans as refugees around 1998-2003? The OMS estimates there are 110,000 people of Zimbabwean birth in the UK and most are comparatively recent arrivals (Zimbabweans in the United Kingdom).

Zimbabwe is a country with deeply misogynistic cultures, where men will call you to cross the road to them so they can sexually assault you without actually stirring their arse. Where a judge (white) released a man who'd murdered his wife when his dinner wasn't hot when he reeled in at silly o'clock, because "any red-blooded male would have done the same". Where rape of children is practically a national sport and another judge gave a man a suspended sentence for raping a 5 year-old... because it was a first offence. Its neighbour, South Africa, which is not identical but has a comparable set of cultures and does more analysis of these things estimates 40% of SA women will be raped in their life time.

I wish I were making all this up, but I'm not.

By your reckoning, there should be a huge leap in assaults on British women and children when the Zimbabwean refugees arrived, because they come from that culture. I'm absolutely sure some will have been involved in crimes of all natures, but (IIUC and I'm willing to be corrected on this), there hasn't been a noticeable leap in reports of sexual abuse.

In fact, here you are in 2016 extolling your continued freedoms despite living in a country with 110,000 Zimbabweans in it. You don't seem have needed the blocking of them to continue these freedoms.

There are very genuine issues to deal with, like the harassment in school described above, which need to be dealt with and not brushed under the carpet as that school did. And many of the issues will cost money, that can't be ignored either.

I also, personally, think there are systematic threats to women's rights and freedoms in the UK at the moment. But I don't think they're coming from 20,000 Syrian refugees over 5 years (or even 100,000). So I don't think not admitting Syrians will help. (I'm only using the Syrian example because I don't know what numbers you might be talking about from other countries.)

NB, I should add that the ONS's figure of 110,000 Zimbabwean-born people in the UK is not all 1998-2003 arrivals, just the spike thereof.

On the other hand, the International Organization for Migration puts the total at 200,000 to 500,000. So swings and roundabouts.

Lulu i cant help wondering what a woman from a poorer area of the north east or indeed the south would have to say.

God, my writing is rubbish today.

NB, I should add that the ONS's figure of 110,000 Zimbabwean-born people in the UK is not entirely composed of 1998-2003 arrivals; but these arrivals do form the majority.

I have lived in 'poorer areas of the north- east'. I live within walking distance of one and worked in one of the most deprived for 15 years until a few weeks ago. Always felt safe. The place I would not feel safe is the West end of Newcastle where men with the attitudes described above are common- but even then not as described in Cologne and I would not be worried in a public place up there.

Pausing

Assaults on women have been rising steadily in this country. Why would you expect to see "a huge spike" produced by the arrival of a national grouping with perhaps 2 adult men to every 1500 adult men already resident in this country? Any such spike would be lost in the general trend.

And that's without considering that "The Zimbabwean community in the UK is diverse, consisting of individuals of differing racial, ethnic, class, and political groups."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimbabweans_in_the_United_Kingdom

Furthermore, the Zimbabwean arrivals did not constitute a large influx over a single year of mainly young men, nor the creation of a demographic such as Sweden now has where there are 126 young men to every 100 young women.

Some 60,000 to 450,000 Zimbabweans did indeed arrive in a large influx over less than 5 years (working from the figures in that article).

According to Lula, her freedoms to own property, dress as she likes and walk down the street will be affected if "tens of thousands" of men from highly misogynist countries arrive in the UK. And again according to this model, sexual assaults should increase by the arrival of these men, so there should be a noticeable bump in the figures corresponding to this, separate from any steady rising.

But I agree with you, any sexual assaults committed by those men (I'm sure there will have been some) were probably lost in the general sexual assaults being committed in the UK. Which is why I don't think keeping 20,000 Syrians, or 60,000, or 450,000 out of the UK will make a significant difference to women's safety here.

And Zimbabweans are diverse are they? A country of 16 million people and they're all different from each other?

But men from all across the Middle East and North Africa - how many hundred millions are you covering there? They're the same? Or rather They are the same?

It looks like you are enacting my post at Wed 27-Jan-16 14:08:48.

By the way, I do think that handling arrivals badly can genuinely cause problems and may interact badly with existing problems in the UK (eg cuts making it harder for women to leave abusive relationships).

But existing problems exist anyway; they're not going to disappear if you keep people out. So why wouldn't you deal with the existing problem? It smells of red herring to be so focussed on Them.

Above should say:

"But people from all across the Middle East..."

I think Sweden is likely to face severe problems.

There is now a serious gender imbalance among its late-teenagers (around 120 males to every 100 females, and it will probably get worse over the next few years, and continue to age up as the cohorts age).

Part of the problem is that Sweden has a small population--only 9.5 million or so people. Several hundred thousand migrants are going to make a big impact on the gender and demographic balance of the country.

Even without cultural issues, that gender imbalance alone is likely to cause issues.

"Part of the problem is that Sweden has a small population--only 9.5 million or so people. Several hundred thousand migrants are going to make a big impact on the gender and demographic balance of the country."
Just like Greece.

Pausing The subject of this thread is the events in Sweden. You chose to make a comparison between North African migrants entering Sweden and Zimbabweans entering the UK, so I addressed that. I note your reply makes no reference to the content of my final sentence: "Furthermore, the Zimbabwean arrivals did not constitute a large influx over a single year of mainly young men, nor the creation of a demographic such as Sweden now has where there are 126 young men to every 100 young women."

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/sweden/12128598/Sweden-is-a-perfect-example-of-how-not-to-handle-the-Great-Migration.html

An interesting read.

Finland is expelling 20,000 out of 32,000 failed refugee claimants in next 2 months.

Kesstrel, the first line of my reply addresses the first part of your final sentence.

I'm not sure what you want me to say about the second part? Was there a question in it? I agree that a large demographic imbalance has the potential to be a problem. Such imbalances have commonly occurred over centuries with war, migration, etc: how much it's an actual problem varies in each case. It may be, currently, part of an actual problem in Sweden.

Yes, amarmai, if people have already failed in their asylum application, it would be normal to deport - at least, the UK does.