Sex Attacks in Cologne and other European Cities Part VIII

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Let the debate continue.....

sport, I thought muslim prayers had to be held at specific times of day?

in which case I dont blame them for wanting the room at a specific hour because christians can pray or reflect at any time.

however pandering to the group that makes the most threats and kicks up the most fuss has to stop.

hedge thats really interesting!

Maybe in some areas though it is failing? Just not all over?

Where I live we had enormous issues with immigration and integration a few years ago, my road was really bad but a few roads away, other friends had no idea!

We lost our breast-feeding room at our office (international high-profile tech firm!) to be used as a prayer room... Come on professional feminists - chew on that!

Not just for "praying times", but the room was an Islam only room to be used for ritual washing/cleansing and so non-muslims were no longer allowed to use it.

My experience of living here is that there are really inward looking communities and really outward looking ones. When we first moved here we lived in a different kommun, the one next to where we live now. I hated Sweden. I thought the Swedes were unfriendly, hostile and down right bloody racist. My neighbours all blanked me, people in shops were rude and the headmaster of the school told me that if I wanted my DD to do well in school I should have stayed in my own country.

Then we moved 10 minutes up the road and it's like we moved to a different country. The people are warm and welcoming and want their community to grow and flourish and for everyone to feel part of their community. And they all say they wouldn't live in the other kommun if you paid them.

well there you go Hedge!

You have experience of how different each community can be, it doesnt mean because your is lovely now, that there are not major issues elsewhere.

And issues can indeed arise from the people who already live there but they can also be created by new commers.

Where abouts in Sweden do you live?

I dont live in sweden I am in UK.

Well there you go Mouse!

You have no experience of what it's currently like to live in Sweden, but here you are minimising the experiences of someone who does and making out like you know better.

No Mouse they were not being asked to share at those times at all.

But they didn't want anyone else to use it at all. Everyone else would have respected their prayer times but they were not willing for anyone else to have the use of it at other times.

Grace I hope nursing mums were given the exclusive use of another room in that case? Or did you lose any facility (please tell me you were not told to use the ladies toilets)?

Um no, I have direct experience of major issues due a large influx of immigrants where I live, and yet a few streets away, nothing changed.

Ie In the same town or village, peoples experience can vary widely. Its my experience and clearly yours too.

Thank you for starting the new thread, and all the links! I wouldn't know where to start!

Grace I cant believe that firstly you had a breast feeding room at work and secondly you lost it. What exactly has the feminist movement been for, if they can give you something then decide to take it away for a group that shouts louder, ridiculous.

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sporting The muslims were upset and wanted the room to be exclusively for their use, they were told it would be discriminatory to bar others from the room but they created such a fuss that in the end senior management said that it would be easier to let them have their way.

THAT actually is discrimination! Senior mgt caved in but in doing so have actually created a potentially lethal legal problem for themselves. I know quite a bit about Workplace Law and the decision is discriminatory against non-muslims. I do realise that they want the room for exclusive use, and it is the same with municipal cemeteries that happen to face east - they demand that the whole cemetery is allocated only for the burial of muslim people. They do not want non-muslims "contaminating" a cemetery.

We lost the facility completely. The official "unofficial" line was (I did complain, because it had shower facilities for those who cycled to work and was the first aid/quiet room for anyone having a wobble) that "none of you (western women) are breastfeeding anyway, so what does it matter?".

This is a company with a female CEO who prides itself on "good facilities for staff".

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3418781/Staff-asylum-centre-Swedish-worker-murdered-warned-happen-YEAR-ago.html

These people will never integrate as long as we keep giving into them. They see themselves as a superior race and we should comply with their rules and needs. Sorry, but if they want to live in a non muslim country they should be prepared to accept our ways, that's what integration is all about.

DeeEm hope the 10 year old boy wasn't just left there.

The little boy is kept as their 'comfort boy' - in the same way that the Japanese kept Korean comfort women.

Grace that is awful! What if someone does want to, will they be told to use the loos? Were alternative shower facilities and quiet room provided too? I imagine people did not stop to cycle to work or have wobbles because the facility was taken.

Veronica it's horrible that we are viewed as contaminating, we are people too, we are all human beings. I would never have a problem with sharing with someone else on the grounds of their religion.

I don't think most muslims resent sharing things, it may be just be a very loud voiced minority. Otherwise I expect DS would be booted out of his school!

Oh my god Veronica that is awful for that poor child! I hope he was rescued and is placed in a wonderful loving home.

Further to the above discussion (which I've only skimmed, so forgive me if these issues have been covered), why should we accept and/or ignore beliefs which, while may be technically true (because we can't prove or disprove them), have been shown to be discriminatory, lead to a lack of development of or even a loss of quality of life for their adherents, hamper human progress, and are otherwise unfair and unjust? From a personal perspective, I don't much care what someone believes, but I find it strange that we, as a society, should be so accepting of the above. While we don't know for certain whether God exists or not, we do know for certain that a belief in God does not promote equality, and often leads to societies, which fail to develop progressive quality of life aspects to our existence (such as material comforts or equality laws). Why bother?

we do know for certain that a belief in God does not promote equality, and often leads to societies, which fail to develop progressive quality of life aspects to our existence
I have to argue with you there, four. There is an academic literature on the how the idea of the individual, which underpins modern western ideas of human rights, developed out of the Judaeo-Christian tradition. I've got a book on which I haven't read yet, but the outline looks convincing.
Caveat: I am an occasional church-goer.
Further caveat: I haven't read the book yet and am not in a position to argue this strongly.

DeeEm hope the 10 year old boy wasn't just left there.

This is an example of the British press giving out misleading information and creating a false impression.

According to Swedish police reports they were alerted to a situation with a child at the centre by staff working for the management company. They are currently investigating this.

Prior to this they were called to the same centre by immigration officials to assist in the removal of certain asylum seekers to another location who didn't want to go. It all got a bit heated so the armed police left via the fire exit.

Two separate events on different days which are being painted as one and the same.

sportinguista - no, no alternative areas were given. Some people did stop cycling/running to work on particularly hot days and I'm not sure about wobbles/injury - manager's office?

Yes, I suppose use the loos which had become like paddling pools due to the liberal "washing" before prayer, the women wouldn't use the aforementioned room because men did or find a quiet corner?

This particular team was half-EU/half-Israeli for over 10 years with everyone just rubbing along together and just the usual gripes. Then the "off-shoring" began and so suddenly the culture differences became apparent. And... don't even ask about the bullshit my Israeli colleagues had to tolerate!

hedgehog - oh phew, thank goodness it was different days, otherwise I'd have thought it was bad a child was raped!