Assaults in Cologne and other European cities part VI

[HelpTheAnimalsFirst]

Thread 6.

I think hate crime must be regarded as a more serious classification of offence as a crime against a person by police and many others, Emily. I don't know of any other group where several hundred people of one characteristic would be set upon in public by 1000's of people of another characteristic and let rip in full view of and then covered up by police. And lots of people then coming along and minimising it and saying it is nothing to zone in on.

I think we know from history it is never good for one type of person to become fair game for mobs to attack with authorities to looking on and not doing anything! And I remember the looting in the London riots. Again people didn't say the scale is not relevant when pockets are picked all and people are people are robbed all the time. Not like the amount of apologists re the Cologne sex crimes.

Now if only they had simply zoned in on sexually attacked women en masse like in Cologne! Then there could have been no prosecutions and the heldu wouldn't have had to go to London.

Does anyone know if the wiping of CCTV by police has been verified? If so was it a whistleblower or reporter?

fourmummy Fri 15-Jan-16 14:17:31 I think it is fine and raises the issues well.

Yes, Help. However it's not a predominantly Muslim culture - it's mixed.

Does anyone know if the wiping of CCTV by police has been verified? If so was it a whistleblower or reporter?
It looks as if that was scare-mongering: in one of the articles linked to today - sorry, can't remember which one - it said the police were going through hours of footage (inc from mobiles) to try and ID some of the perps suspects.

Vertigo, in answer to your question upthread- I spent 9 years in Algeria as a child (6 to 15) the sexual harassment and molestation started when I was 10 and didn t stop till I left the country. It was a common occurrence and girls/ women were supposed to just take it, or stay indoors.
I can't tell you my relief that people are talking about it now. When I came back to England in the 80s I soon realised that for some reason it wasn't OK. White person saying people of another (non European) culture have done something bad= unacceptable was the message I got then. I'm damned if I'm going to shut up about it now.

Wow, sorry you all had those experiences.

Yes blaming all men is definitely the answer

I know, but a neighbour & friend of mine who is a Sanskrit scholar told me that piece of info. By 2050 it is predicted that India will be 50-50 Hindu-Muslim.

I don't like this last version, with the imported sexual assault bit. It's just too xenophobic. What was wrong with the previous version?

I think the version at the end of the last thread, minus "hate" is good.

Blimey I've missed a whole thread.

Thought you might like to know I had a reply from my very nice MP. It's cautious in that it doesn't mention migrants: but she says she can understand why a government confirmation of women's rights would be welcome. That we need more information about possible links, co-ordination and pre-planning around all the attacks, and she believes government needs to release any information they have: and finally that women have a right to know the risks of such attacks happening here.

She is also going to write to the home secretary.

You might also all want to get hold of a copy of "The Economist" Jan 16th 2016, both to read its leader and support the writer, since it sums matters up quite nicely. I'll see if there's an online version in a mo.

Do you know what sentencing tends to be for hate crimes though Pang? It seems to make sense to campaign or the law to be used that brings about te strongest sentence.

I don't sex why a hate crime must be seen as a more serious crime than a sex crime? If sentencing for hate crimes is lower than that for sexually motivated crimes, where is the sense in campaigning for something that may deliver a weaker or shorter sentence?

It may also be the case that there are difficulties getting hate crimes to be taken seriously, just as there are with sexual crimes.

Does it may make sense to describe these attacks as a hate crime or to place the attacks as a sexual crime as well as as an additional crime?

Scale ofattacks couldn't be the prerequisite for hate crime, it would have to be the nature of the attack. Much of rape is fuelled by hate, so should it be considered as an additional crime in many kinds of sexual assault?

www.economist.com/news/leaders/21688397-absorb-newcomers-peacefully-europe-must-insist-they-respect-values-such-tolerance-and

Bungo

Looking for good articles that sum up the whole issue. If that one does, can you link?

This was the petition wording at the end of the last thread.

On New Year’s Eve, women across Europe were subjected to mass assault. UK women must be free to travel, work and live, without experiencing intimidation, sexual violence or other hate crime. We ask the government to debate and enforce measures to uphold women's rights irrespective of religious or cultural traditions.

269

I propose the removal of "hate".

Just going out on a limb- I suspect and reports seem to back this up, most perps in Germany were not Syrian but North African and Afghan. Tragically, Syria was a relatively civilised country with high standards of public behaviour. In north Africa in my experience and that of many others, the sexual frustration and aggression towards women is often palpable. Not sure why Algerians would be seeking asylum unless it is from a corrupt regime. They are leaving Algeria because of unemployment, housing shortages and a youth bulge whose needs for jobs and hope are not being met. They are not in fear of their lives or facing persecution but probably trying to pass themselves off as refugees if they can. Granted, Libya is another matter and many probably have a strong case for trying to get out.

On New Year’s Eve, women across Europe were subjected to mass assault. UK women must be free to travel, work and live, without experiencing intimidation or sexual violence. We ask the government to debate and enforce measures to uphold women's rights and group sexual assault detection/punishment.

What do you think?

I've reached the point where I just want a well-worded petition up and think we have several good versions we could use.

Keep it simple, is all.

Agree, Lume. Isn't this the third day that the wording has been debated?

Quite possibly, Mama.
I have to trot off now and won't be back till later. Take my vote in favour as assumed: I trust you all of you working on it not to foul it up!

Awaiting confirmation of fronting person then we can go

Still need your best summary website articles - please post

I think this is one that was mentioned. It's good
www.economist.com/news/leaders/21688397-absorb-newcomers-peacefully-europe-must-insist-they-respect-values-such-tolerance-and

Maybe not

See page 2 of comments btl on the Economist article, by oystercatcher at 10:50, from Sweden.