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Assaults in Cologne and other European cities part VI

1000 replies

HelpTheAnimalsFirst · 15/01/2016 10:54

Thread 6.

OP posts:
glenthebattleostrich · 17/01/2016 14:07

I suppose people who have claimed that transwomen are a danger to women's safety will suddenly find their inner support for trans people. And the DM - which is not a particular fan of trans people - will also find their support as it might well involve refugees or immingrants or Islamic views.

Ego, I don't think anyone on the trans threads has said they want Trans people hurt, they simply don't want women's rights trampled all over and women's safety put at risk again. And, at risk of sounding like the thread police, could we please keep the trans debate to the relevant threads?

I'm also shocked that some posters are banned but others are allowed to continue unabated.

Emily, it may surprise you to know I don't hate muslims. I disagree with most organised religion but I respect anyones right to practice it. All the Muslims I know (and I have studied with and lived along side lots of Muslims for many years) are lovely people who live life according to the book, or atl least their interpretation of it.

What I personally take issue with is the cultural influences which treat women as second or third class citizens. And I will not tolerate being called a racist for refusing to accept cultural ideals which treat me, my daughter, my sisters and my nieces as less than men. The attacks across Europe we committed by a certain group and it doesn't matter how many times you jump up and down and yell racist that doesn't change the facts. You have tried for 6 threads to derail with your crap and quite frankly I am bored of it. Your what-about-it-is is tedious. Do you spend your weekdays asking cancer doctors why they don't care enough about heart disease? No, well stop doing the same thing here.

Love the men in miniskirts :)

VertigoNun · 17/01/2016 14:10

Ego, I don't think anyone on the trans threads has said they want Trans people hurt, they simply don't want women's rights trampled all over and women's safety put at risk again.

This. Why would anyone want another person stoned? I found it upsetting.

emilybohemia · 17/01/2016 14:11

No moreshabby, she stated that she saw Muslims wearing burkha or hijab are showing their hostility to Western values and showing their belief that they are better than us. She made her meaning and her racism clear. A person's mouth can be seen moving perfectly well when they wear hijab, but she objected very strongly to their right to wear it and maintained it was a sign of their antipathy to Western ideals.

I am not ashamed of saying that is racist or that her hateful views consistently went unchallenged in the thread. I am not ashamed of pointing out hate when I see it. I would be ashamed of failing to, as the majority on this thread have.

Egosumquisum · 17/01/2016 14:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

unlucky83 · 17/01/2016 14:18

emily can you clarify something for me? I'm slightly confused.
Last night at 00:21 you said

I used to have a Muslim friend but I didn't know much about her religion. There are so many Muslims in the world that it would be good to know more about it, even if you are an atheist.

Followed today as a response to whataboutBob's comment
'Plus a lot of muslims see it as a literal guide for living, or think it should be, which is not the case for most Christians and the Bible'.

Your reply was
Unsubstantiated nonsense.

And you have made a lot of other similar seemingly knowledgeable comments

So emily which is it?
You don't know anything about Islam, would like to know more and so don't actually have a clue what you are talking about?
or
You know enough to dismiss Whatabout's comment as 'unsubstantiated' ?

Like I said I'm feeling confused. Not sure in what depth to reply to your comments, what level of understanding you have ...do you have a good understanding of Islam or not?

VertigoNun · 17/01/2016 14:19

It will be interesting to know if those on twitter sending death threats to feminists will sign the petition and now focus on sending their angry tweets to the Men who stoned transwomen.

glenthebattleostrich · 17/01/2016 14:25

This has never been in doubt Ego, it's how the male violence is dealt with by different groups that is the issue.

Egosumquisum · 17/01/2016 14:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LumelaMme · 17/01/2016 14:28

Hatred and fear of Muslims has moved from the margins to the mainstream
I'm not afraid of ordinary Muslims. I am afraid of Islamists.
As I said upthread, these Islamists tell everyone, loudly, that they are Muslims: true Muslims. Some Muslims believe them and flock to the Caliphate. If these Muslims believe that Islamism is a true - the only true - interpretation of their religion, it's no wonder that Sam in the street wonders if they're right.

Add to that the Mail's regular Anti-Muslim Ten Minutes Hate, (and the discovery of various cover-ups in other parts of the press) and bingo... Sam starts voting UKIP. Do we let UKIP and the far right control this debate? Or do we (as one or two posters seem to have said) not have it at all?

Or do we try and talk about it? (And get called racists and Neo-Nazis?)

This is actually what Isis want, tension between Muslims and everyone else.
emily, I think you're probably correct here. The 'liberal' West turns against Muslims, Muslims become radicalised, and then - who knows? But if we don't deal with these issues NOW, if we pussyfoot around things like Cologne, if the press covers up wrong-doing by migrants, the full story will come out and be infinitely more damaging to the relationship between Muslims and non-Muslims. If these sorts of assaults become more common, because governments don't report them or quell them, you can guarantee that parties like Pegida will go from strength to strength.

I'm sure you're going to come back and tell me that Cologne had nothing to do with the culture of North Africa and that life is just peachy for women in those countries. But it did, and life isn't. Or tell me that what happens at the Oktoberfest is just bad (so far as I can tell, it was nowhere near).

Yes, I agree that we need to tackle all forms of violence against women. Cologne is a new form, not previously seen in Europe. We need to tackle it, and debate it, because denying it will do nobody any good at all.

Except the real Fascists: Neo-Nazis. And ISIS.

MariscallRoad · 17/01/2016 14:29

scandifacts Sun 17-Jan-16 11:53:55 brilliant.

BackToTheNorth · 17/01/2016 14:37

emily

'No moreshabby, she stated that she saw Muslims wearing burkha or hijab are showing their hostility to Western values and showing their belief that they are better than us. She made her meaning and her racism clear. A person's mouth can be seen moving perfectly well when they wear hijab, but she objected very strongly to their right to wear it and maintained it was a sign of their antipathy to Western ideals.'

Would you might explaining exactly how disliking the burkha or hijab makes one a racist? If a non-white person dislikes them, are they racists too? What race is born wearing those items of clothing? Looking forward to hearing your logic.

carlajean · 17/01/2016 14:38

So, am I right in thinking that we're waiting for Government approval of the wording of the petition - do we have a timescale for this?
Has anyone successfully contacted (and got a response from) Nicky Morgan, the Minister for Women? For the life of me, I can't work out how to do this. It specifically says that she should be contacted via the Department of Education website, but I cannot see how to do that when I go on the site. I might call her office tomorrow but it would be useful to see if anyone else has managed it.
I've emailed Kate Green, the Shadow Women's Minister. According to the automatic reply, I should hear something within 11 days, so will post then.
Has anybody else had a response from the people they've contacted? It would be interesting, while we're waiting for the return of the petition, so see what results people have had.

carlajean · 17/01/2016 14:41

ps, for what it's worth, I don't think we should be engaging with emily. It isn't taking the thread anywhere, and I personally think that her agenda is to have the thread deleted.

polentapies · 17/01/2016 14:43

Look Emily, you got your way by having Help banned, so stop abusing her now that she is no longer here to defend herself

unlucky83 · 17/01/2016 14:50

lumela I completely agree with your post. What you have said is exactly how I feel. It needs to be talked about.

polentapies · 17/01/2016 15:10

Carla

I agree with you re. agenda of getting the thread deleted and not engaging.

It is important that this thread stands. New readers will easily be able to see the lunatic attempts goad people into angry responses etc but there is important debate and information on these threads and it would be a great pity to lose them.

So please keep your temper people... Not always easy with such provocation I know only too well.

BungoWomble · 17/01/2016 15:19

I'm a bit surprised Help got banned if it was solely on the strengh of these threads, while there are other threads where people say they're acting illegally, having weapons and intent to use them, without bannings. And our friend claig (sorry but she can get a bit extreme) is usually tolerated no matter what she comes out with.

I'm looking forward to the petition being made available, thanks so much to all you clever people for organising it.

I've already put I had a response from my MP. She said she would write to the Home Secretary.

Fgs Emily go look up racism in a dictionary. No one is talking about inherited characteristics that people have no control over here. Criticism of religion, cultural values and ideas should never have been restricted to the extent that it has.

LieselMeminger · 17/01/2016 15:22

Ego, I don't think anyone on the trans threads has said they want Trans people hurt, they simply don't want women's rights trampled all over and women's safety put at risk again. And, at risk of sounding like the thread police, could we please keep the trans debate to the relevant threads?

I was just coming to post similar.

Ego I have taken parts in those threads and many many times the posters have said they wish no harm to TW, I will say again, I don't want any harm to come to TW or Women and a solution needs to be found to keep both safe, but without making women have to stfu and move over, it's the changes that are being pushed for. (anyone is a woman if they say they are) do pose a threat to women's safety and rights, not TW themselves imo.

You've said a few times about posters on those threads being silent here when that's not the case. I changed my name to the German girl from The Book Thief (not related to Cologne, timing was coincidence), but as the conversation was moving fast and derailed too I didn't mention anything, but there are posters from those threads here.

I didn't say anything about Helps comments for the same reason, the thread had moved on by the time I read it.

I'm not racist, I'm also not Transphobic (an accusation that's common on those safe space threads discussing threats to women's safety and rights too) I don't want anyone to be harmed.

I'm sorry for the derail, and I'll say no more, or discuss on another thread, but felt like I had to say something. It's shit that hundreds of women were assaulted in Cologne, and it's shit that TW were attacked too. I care about both and I truly do mean that. Flowers

Egosumquisum · 17/01/2016 15:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Egosumquisum · 17/01/2016 15:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WillBeatJanuaryBlues · 17/01/2016 15:31

"So emily which is it?
"You don't know anything about Islam, would like to know more and so don't actually have a clue what you are talking about?
or
You know enough to dismiss Whatabout's comment as 'unsubstantiated' ?

Like I said I'm feeling confused. Not sure in what depth to reply to your comments, what level of understanding you have ...do you have a good understanding of Islam or not?"

I read this to and was staggered by this. Staggered!

Staggered that a poster who is trying to help women from any faith and colour is banned but one that trots out vicious slurs to nearly all of us on here, and trys to derail a thread such as this, with base and goading comments is allowed to stay. Hmm

Then the claim " actually I don't know much about it" Confused

Thankfully there are some wonderful posters on here, its a great thread, they have all been and hopefully a petition will come out at the end of it Smile which is the end game and goal, after all - of the more enlightened posters here. ( not me, I am in awe of others knowledge and learning on this) I am just tagging along the coat tails. Smile

WillBeatJanuaryBlues · 17/01/2016 15:35

polenta

I hear you but why is a poster allowed to stay when we all have to literally keep saying to each other "ignore her, don't rise, keep going with the point of the thread" its utterly farcical and she is getting other posters banned because they finally had enough????

I mean calling people racist is pretty serous allegation isn't it/ personal attack? Or is it because she is just blanket bombing us all with the term? so that makes it ok?

WillBeatJanuaryBlues · 17/01/2016 15:38

carla

I mentioned this to the journalist who wrote some interesting pieces on this in the telegraph. I am waiting for the petition to hopefully go live as it where then I will ask if she can mention it - sign it - advertise it - or something Smile

I have not yet, but I will also write to Theresa May who gave a speech on social cohesion and also the womans minister.

WillBeatJanuaryBlues · 17/01/2016 15:39

Emily are you aware of the increasing number of Sharia courts in britain, let alone in Muslim countries?

Emily doesn't know much about Islam apparently Hmm so I would guess not.

I personally like to read round subjects that interest me.

MariscallRoad · 17/01/2016 15:43

I am looking forward to petition

www.dw.com/en/the-cologne-attacks-are-affecting-everyone/a-18983508

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