Mass sexual assaults in Cologne and other European cities part III

[GeekLove]

link to part 2

Keeping this in the spotlight since the mainstream media isn't.

Luna's back

Actually there may be the odd post from a one off poster or two. I'm not counting them

Polenta that's exactly what i wanted to say re Luna, whoops have to be careful as I have just had my second G&T which is a very thing indeed, what with being a camomile tea / hot chocolate addict.

Time to step away I think.

is a very rare* thing indeed....

is that aimed at me more? If yes, I think you are right .

Moreshabby, Helptheanimalsfirst has stated that migrants without employment skills are coming simply to get benefits, that they will drift into work in caes or bars, that they won't be paying tax. That sounds fairly anti immigrant to me,coming up with reasons why they would be useless members of society. Clearly people that do pub or cafe work are not worthy of respect in her eyes either. I have worked in loads of pubs and paid tax in each! Yes, this a thread about violence to women, so what on earth does tax have to do with it?!

TwistedReach, that makes me very happy.

Onthephone. Me neither. Just very angry women.

Emily why don't you read the thread and the discussion as a whole?

We can't stop posters from commenting (obviously) and we can't edit their views (obviously). However it's very clear that that is NOT what this discussion is primarily about so why jump on the whole thread for it?

No pink I was meaning myself, I don't like the way this thread is going.

Emily we are all not responsible for what others post and if you have a gripe with them then take it up with them and not everyone else on the thread.

Goodnight.

Lumela, 'I am NOT a racist. I am NOT a xenophobe. I believe that western values are important and should not be compromised because SOME immigrants can't cope with them'. Some immigrants can't cope with them, as some of the non immigrants can't. Why not highlight all points where safety of women is violated and stress the importance of that to mps?
Emily, indeed some non-immigrants can't. What is different with this is that these men, by ALL reports, appear to have come almost entirely from the same cultural (i.e. N African/Middle Eastern background) and what happened in Cologne - the mass nature of it - is UTTERLY different from what has gone before.

My hands are shaking as I type this. I have been groped. I have been goosed. By white men. I have NEVER before heard of women having to run a gauntlet of men like this one.

THAT is why I have written to my MP.

FFS, I even make the point that it's only SOME immigrants who act like this and you still jump right in. I do NOT want the culture I live in to change for the worse. And yes, do think that cultures that subjugate women are worse than ours. Happy now?

Do you by any chance write for the Guardian?

Emily there have been more than 2000 posts in these threads. Perhaps a handful are outright anti immigrant. I think we are doing OK.

Do you have anything else to contribute besides attempting to shut down all discussion relating to the cultural background of these men?

I have read it onthephone. You have to challenge people like that.

Were there not marches by women called Reclaim the Streets once? I would like to see some action of that kind, not the focus on the responsibility of one group for male violence. There must be a unified response to ALL male violence.

Not if it derails the thread Emily

Moreshabbythanchic, that is what I did, which is why when making my points I posted THEIR NAMES before what I had to say with each point.

This is why

Emily I am an immigrant. I have worked in bars and cafes. I am not in the least bothered by what helptheanimalsfirts wrote. Why should I be? She is giving her perspective and opinion on our current events.

If I disagree, I will argue the points. Shouting "anti-immigrant" is pointless. Being anti-immigration is a political stance that people are allowed to have in this country. It is up for debate. You may feel passionately that we need to allow more immigrants and you may press your point, but you can't win the argument by defining anyone who doesn't share your views as "bad" and any opinion that doesn't bolster yours as "unacceptable."

especially when posters are being deliberately inflammatory
Uh, Emily, where was I ever that?
The post of mine that you criticised was a response to some of the racist posts on this thread. I almost included 'Can all the racists please leave the thread' but then decided that would probably break community guidelines or something so I deleted it.

There have been some racist posts, I am not denying that. But the majority of posters have been disappointed Guardian readers who don't think women's rights should play second fiddle to the delicate sensibilities of ANYONE, black white, sky-blue pink, Christian, Muslim, or Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I'm sorry if that offends you.

Reclaim The Night? Feminists wont go against a real rape culture. They are too happy on their armchair crying about air conditioning being sexist

Were there not marches by women called Reclaim the Streets once?
Reclaim the night. This was discussed some 100s of posts back, had you bothered to RTFT.

God, I'm cross. It takes a lot to rile me.

There must be a unified response to ALL male violence.

Actually, that is a terrible strategy. Hasn't worked at all so far. Much easier to divide and conquer. Pick them off one by one. Don't try to fight all the evil in the world all at once because that is IMPOSSIBLE and is as good as giving up.

Onthephone, explain derailing the thread please? This seems to be a commonlyused phrase when someone is challenge and unable to provide a counter argument. Unless I am being deeply unpleasant and offensive, then I see no reason why my posts are a problem. You have the option to ignore my posts and choose to respond to those that you agree with. These accusations of 'derailing the thread' seem rather childish, particularly in a thread that purports to value women's freedom and right to open and rigorous debate.

Yes, let's all get back on track because we were making progress in our thinking around these issues, which a lot of people have found useful (from what they said).

I do NOT want the culture I live in to change for the worse. And yes, I do think that cultures that subjugate women are worse than ours absolutely spot-on except I'd add that all cultures subjugate women but some quantitatively and qualitatively worse than others. All cultural practises are not equal. You can argue that they are but that's disingenuous because if you asked a sample of women if they'd prefer to do more housework than their husbands each week or be stoned to death for being raped, I think I know which way they'd answer, and that is a perfectly valid measure of 'good' and 'bad'.

We had this exact same discussion with Luna on the last thread Emily, and it was distracting and annoying.

Emily this thread is about these particular unprecedented incidents of male violence which by all accounts were perpetrated by men from one cultural group. That doesn't mean that all men from that group are being held responsible and the vast majority of posters on here have taken care to point this out.

We all know that there is a problem with male violence in our society, but this is something else on another level entirely. It is pointless trying to discuss it without looking at the cultural identity and values which lead to these kinds of attacks because in this case it is undeniably a factor.