Mass sexual assaults in Cologne and other European cities part III

[GeekLove]

link to part 2

Keeping this in the spotlight since the mainstream media isn't.

Ego there is nothing to suggest that LGBT are going to be persecuted. In many of those countries Jews ofteb have a terrible time along with Asian migrant workers (in the gulf countries)

I myself do not feel threatened. My friend in Germany is not living in fear she is concerned of course and being cautious (something where she lives she has never had to be) as attacks have happened in her city

I think young women are the ones of any groups who have understandable and real concerns

Yes women for once is it possible to keep to focus on women, especially young women

'Convince me that a million refugees who come from countries where LGBT people are persecuted, arrested and killed is not going to be an issue for LGBT people in Europe?'

Ego, quite often they're escaping these kind of extreme views of all kinds. It doesn't mean they will transfer the hate they escape to where they are going, far from it. Perhaps some may be perplexed by elements of the new society they find, as Christians sometimes are, as individuals of no religion sometimes are. If your fear of immigrants is down to the possibility that they may be homophobic, then why are these concerns directed only at those escaping predominantly Muslim countries? Homophobia is particularly prevalent in Slovakia, Poland and the Czech Republic, all of which are EU members that offer migration to individuals that is far less problematic than the journey to the UK many others make.

This is being discussed on Loose Women now. Saira Khan is a panellist and has personal experience so interesting.

You could catch it on +1 if interested

Well that's part of the point. It would show that women have authority, that they are backed by the state and women won't stand for abuse. And any further disrespect for women should be met by the full force of the state. I know a volunteer woman police officer was among the initial victims, but it's the numbers game again. I would be asking though, not telling. If I had any influence in the world at all

One of the things we're complaining about is that women should not have to hide away. I still like the idea of sympathy marches. Anyone else know how to organise those, or know anyone who does and will?

So, nothing at Emily? Not a single comment whatsoever about the plight of female refugees? Zip? Nada? SFA?

'These events have changed my tune rightly or wrongly but as long as it don't happen here...being called racist is a mall price to pay if I think it will save my daughters growing up around men who are bought up to belive females are second class. Close the borders....step back....and know who is coming in unlike Germany. The women there must be scared'.

Coldoutside, unfortunately no, it won't prevent your daughters being brought up around men that think women are second class as there are a large proportion of men that already think that. Blaming immigrants for the uncomfortable truths of our own society, in the misguided belief that we will then be safe, seems rather comical to me.

Lurker here-

just posting to say they are discussing this on Loose Women right now, it's good

YesEinsteinsMum Not possible to establish identity of those coming in because either paperwork genuinely destroyed or deliberately destroyed.
The only way authorities can at least find out from which nations the migrants are coming is to hire an army of interpreters to cover as many languages as possible.

If a migrant continues to profess that he does not speak this or that language, then he should be detained until he declares where he is from. To confirm his declaration, an interpreter can be advertised for to come forward. In fact, they can be borrowed from the UN. Geneva is not far away. None of this is difficult.

These issues exist in many countries ego and are not always tied to religion. As I stated, homophobia has been rife in Poland with lebian and gay rights massively affected. We have many Polish migrants living in the UK who could transfer hatred of gay people as much as those coming from predominantly Muslim countries could. I am conceding that there is a problem in as much as I am conceding these problems exist in most countries to varying levels. I am however sceptical that newcomers to the UK bring attitudes that are any more dangerous than the general population's.
When people are killed for being gay in countries people are fleeing from, it is by Isis oe extremist groups. The people fleeing are unlikely to come and start persecuting people. They want to get away from all that and get a job and concentrate on being alive and stuff. I am flummoxed why someone that previously claimed to be so engraved by the Daily Mail is now scaremongering in the same fashion.

Emily you are a bit goady..do you not have common sense as your reply to me suggests I think i live in a place that's free from all danger where unicorns dance around pear trees and money falls from the sky....I said in my original post...in a world that is already dangerous didn't I. That means I am aware that we have a problem already....but just because we already have a problem doesn't mean it's OK to let men in who think women are second class and create an even bigger problem than we have now.

I've seen on this thread you don't relent....you pulled my post apart to sound how you wanted it to even though I clearly said...already a dangerous world my daughters live in.

I will not be replying to you again and will ignore your future posts as I feel your not looking at this from both sides.

I haven't read much of this very long thread and I'm not a very bright person, so please don't have a go at me!

This may have been mentioned, but I was just wondering whether these attacks could have been organised by ISIS, hence the terrorist attack warnings and closed train stations on NYE? My worry is that we are just falling into the hands of ISIS by not openly discussing these issues for fear of being considered racist. ISIS know that we are probably too PC in Europe to openly report and discuss this and that this suspicion and fear will lead to attacks on innocent Muslim men, the majority of whom would abhor such behaviour. Those innocent muslims who are persecuted could in turn start to support ISIS. Even the most liberal thinking Muslim males could support extreme groups if they are the victims of racism.

Slightly worried that Becca from MN is looking into this thread. It seems to me that all voices need to be heard, not only those we agree with. The silence on this in media has been deafening. It is wonderful to finally find an open and honest discussion.

Constance, can you PM me or post what you emailed to Women's Hour?

Shocking that they are not reporting on this massive story.

MN, please, please do not delete this thread. It's very lively, but people are learning stuff and some good things are happening.

I agree Eta that all voices need to be heard, but some voices are trying to shut this discussion down with accusations of racism. Hence the reports to MN.

A big concern voiced by many posters is that failing to discuss this for fear of being called racist will lead to the issue being claimed by the far Right, causing exactly the sort of fallout you're worried about.

Did anyone read the article in the The Times Saturday magazine about the four young male feminists?

A bright spot in an otherwise very dark weekend.

Those young guys need to be directed to Mumsnet to further their education

Talking about racism is not the same as shutting things down. Telling others not to talk to us/ calling us trolls and retailers for having a different voice is. Anything can be hijacked by the far right. As someone said my comments about the impact of trauma could be, although I'll be surprised if they talk about the impact of bombing, abusing and neglecting people who do not fit the homogenous group they want to keep so exclusive.

Derailers not retailers!

Talking about racism is not the same as shutting things down.
Talking about racism is not the same thing as accusations of racism. Which posters on this thread have been accused of. In fact, I asked a direct question of a poster - was she calling me a racist? - because her post implied she was.

She has not had the good grace to answer, and she's had bloody nearly an hour in which to do so.

BBC news here

All the cologne attackers were of migrant origin.

"The report describes a modus operandi known as "taharrush gamea" in Arabic, meaning group sexual harassment in crowds, and compares it to incidents reported in Cairo's Tahrir Square at the time of the Egyptian revolution."

From the BBC.

Taharrush gamea: group sexual harassment in crowds.

As someone else has said, this is an established phenomenon. How can this be talked about abad tackled?