Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

News

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Mass sexual assaults in Cologne and other European cities part III

999 replies

GeekLove · 09/01/2016 19:05

link to part 2

Keeping this in the spotlight since the mainstream media isn't.

OP posts:
DespicableBee · 10/01/2016 15:38

Hidden, I agree this thread is hidden away, why doesn't in the news have its own category, instead of being part of other stuff?

onthephone100 · 10/01/2016 15:40

I have found www.frauenenbeauftrate.org as the only group local to cologne who seem to be saying or doing a thing about NYE. Excepting the far right of course.

It's so weird though, there just no information out there at all - no discussion fora, no action groups, no petitions from German women. I can't find a thing.

onthephone100 · 10/01/2016 15:41

Sorry it's frauenbeauftragte

polentapies · 10/01/2016 15:42

Doesn't the thread come up as trending, in the usual way?

polentapies · 10/01/2016 15:44

Report on twitter that the number of reported sexual assaults is no over 400

YesEinsteinsMumDid · 10/01/2016 15:44

Abetadad: Look at the definitions of what can be reported as rape/assult under the law and what you feel should be considered. I suspect that there will be a discrepancy especially if the politicians are saying our laws are wrong and need updating on this matter. Also noeffingidea is right so many are too scared or ashamed to report/press charges.

This is not a thread that feels all immigrant are out to rape our daughters. More a case of why have they covered up the fact that this has happened and that this is linked to an issue that hasn't been properly managed yes I blame the German government somewhat for mismanaging this and also why does the right of women to be safe and not blamed for rape/have told rape is their fault end up being less important.

Most outrageously from this situation is the fact that instead of dealing with the issue women are told that they are to blame because they were out at night and were wearing clothes that would normally be considered culturally acceptible and thus to prevent this they can't go out in the dark, they should be out alone and that they should worry that what they are wearing will cause a man to rape them.

The fact that this does most certainly look to be organised gang targeting of women compounds this. It is giving the green light for it to happen. I have said before I don't give a shiny shit what race the individuals were, yes it does have to be considered. BUT if this is not dealt with it will end up with men in general who are less morally sound taking the green light and following suit. NOT ALL MEN are like this. I had the pleasure of discussing this topic with a man who was fair more black and white on this issue than I am and is disgusted. But there are men who will bow to peer pressure, who haven't the same view of morals/standards and it is these that we need to say strongly to "This is not acceptible and we will deal with you accordingly, and you will not get away with this and there will be consequences.

Am I scared that it will happen in the UK. Yes, yes I am. But that is because of the treatment that I have already recieved in the local city centre. That is because of the issue with human trafficers in the UK, that is the issue because it still has not been dealt with properly in the UK. A woman who has been raped is still made to feel guilty. By the police, the court system and society. But as hard as women, and some men, have been shouting this is not right there is enough of a voice shouting innocence before guilt, well she brought it on herself. That is why we have the we believe you campaign.

IMO this is just an extension of that. We believe that this happened to these women. We believe that this shouldn't have happened. We believe that this shouldn't happen again. We are shocked that we are being told it is our fault and to change our behaviour accordingly. We are shocked that this is not being discussed and was being covered up. Only by talking and taking action can we bring about a safer future.

And if the German society can't talk and hear about what is happening to their citizens how can they best protect the immigrant women and children too? It is for their sakes too we need to say this is wrong and it must not be allowed to happen again because we are too scared to talk about it and challenge this.

So this thread is about standing up and saying this isn't right. That a minority of men should not be dictating expectations of behaviour from all men. That this needs to be discuss and changed. And that shouting racist does not stop the fact that it is the right of women to be and feel safe. This is about ensuring basic baslow heirarchy of needs. This is about enforcing the Convention on the elimination of all forms of discrimation against women But it is also about protecting the right for men to be safe because there is nothing to stop these people turning on men eventually. Ultimately it is about having a culture and society that allows all people to be safe. Right now we are heading to a time when no one is safe. And it is frightening

hiddenhome2 · 10/01/2016 15:46

No, it's not in trending polentapies

emilybohemia · 10/01/2016 15:46

This is what you said polenta, 'Better watch out for the hangover tomorrow, don't trip over your halo. May you offer your vagina to a few of them as recompense?' Perhaps you would like to explain how it isn't racist or sexist?

onthephone100 · 10/01/2016 15:46

Sorry, like lots of FB "news" it was slightly false. Not yesterday, happened last year.

I really mustn't take everything I see on FB as correct Angry

here

TensionWheelsCoolHeels · 10/01/2016 15:47

Onthephone, I watched European news yesterday & there was a protest in Cologne by women who gathered at the cathedral in protest - it was (I think) at the same time or at least on the same day as the right wing March which had the water cannons. I saw some women interviewed & there was no aggression, no xenophobic comments, just women standing up for the right to travel freely & without threat or fear of attacks. The comments made were all about standing up for women & nothing to do with the right wing agenda being played out elsewhere in Cologne.

MariscallRoad · 10/01/2016 15:51

Misogyny oif Europeans and Misogyny of other cultures: there is a difference.

In some Western Countries this is demostrated in discrimination which might include lower female salary or blocking women's appointments on Boards, setting ceiling to female jobs, lack of female promotion and bad contracts for women, bulying, harassment - an extremly long list etc. Financial independence of women is most important for their independence. A woman to get compensation for something bad done to her she has to go to a Tribunal or spend huge costs in courts.

ABetaDad1 · 10/01/2016 15:52

Sonya - sorry but I am not going to be booted off this thread because I want to take a nuanced view that acknowledges the unprecedented scale of sexual assaults and yet seeks to understand why it happened.

As it happens I think some of the posters who are referencing M. East and N. African male attitudes to women are inadvertently apologising for what happened as a product of their cultural attitudes.

Lets not get hung about that - its not irrelevant but it is merely a cultural backdrop against which these crimes took place. Lets be clear, hundreds out of a thousand or so young immigrant men took part in widespread robbery, sexual assault and rape in the middle of a German city.

These people are low life criminals who have no place in Germany as asylum seekers. That is all we need to understand. They are evil men and they did what they did because they thought they could get away with because they wanted to.

I just think we are in danger of giving them some kind of 'special status'. They are no more than low life criminals who crossed a border illegally on the intent on a life of crime in a rich and naïve country.

Some things I have seen in my life in N. Africa, M. Est and E. Europe I don't intend on repeating here but non of this surprises me. Women are often the primary targets of these men and almost always the victims.

polentapies · 10/01/2016 15:52

Good post *Einstensmum". The original thread was started because it was all rumour on Twitter and almost nothing in the MSM. That in itself was really frightening. And as it went on it was clear that it was a tetchy subject for the press. Reading the Observer today, one journalist was defending the lack of coverage as post holiday reasons. And to an extent, that could be true, but there was more to it than that. I think many of us react when we are being told not to talk about something!

SonyaAtTheSamovar · 10/01/2016 15:53

I'm leaving , you stay with the nuance of "accessory crime.
Jerk.

WildeWoman · 10/01/2016 15:56

What the fuck is your point abetadad?

'Cos all I can see is 'mumbo jumbo..... men wanted to steal..... blah blah...... decided to have a grope at the same time... mumbo jumbo.... I lived in the Middle East..... blah blah.... this one time at band camp.... mumbo jumbo'?

Moreshabbythanchic · 10/01/2016 15:58

Emily we all know what Polenta said as you have repeated it numerous times, it has been explained numerous times, can we just move on now?

Moreshabbythanchic · 10/01/2016 15:59

Oh, and BTW, I'm still waiting for you to explain what my campaign is.

emilybohemia · 10/01/2016 16:04

ABetadad1, I think the only sensible route is to demand a more rigorous response to rape and sexual assault across Europe, rather than introducing tighter laws on migrants and immigration. Migrants are not more sexually aggressivethan any other group. If we don't accept the sex crimes of migrants,lets not accept those committed by the non migrants. Saying that the sex crimes of migrants are worse and more of athreat is pure hypocrisy. There should be zero tolerance of all sex crimes and that included the groping that Benichem excused because it was at Oktoberfest where it is 'expected.'

regenerationfez · 10/01/2016 16:06

I was reading a report in the Times that said that some women has scratch marks on her inner thighs. Funny place to put your purse. It's somehow worse that these men used sexual assault as a cover up for theft. As if they see theft as a crime but sexual assault as not a crime.

I haven't been sent n this thread much because itr makes me angry so its probably been said elsewhere but neo Nazism and aspects of Islamic culture have much in common. Fascism= a belief that anyone outside a certain race are inferior, a belief in the way inferiority of women, that they should be in the home, bringing up children and looking after their men. Islamism= a belief that everyone outside that ideology is inferior, a belief in the inferiority of women, that they should be kept out of sight and in the home, covered up. A fight against one is a fight against both.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 10/01/2016 16:07

I hate to strike a depressing note, but does anyone really think anything will change in the area of womens' rights as a result of this - I mean, seriously?

From the reporting styles to the suppression, from the surprise that it's not trending/discussion of the day or whatever to the usual cries of racism, whataboutery and the infighting, it seems to me to be all too similar to what happened in Rotherham, with practically nothing learned and yet another gift handed to the extreme right

God help us all Sad

HelpTheAnimalsFirst · 10/01/2016 16:08

Einsteinsmum: "they should not be out alone and that they should worry that what they are wearing will cause a man to rape them."

On this occasion all the women were wearing winter coats or anoraks as Dec is very cold in Germany.

regenerationfez · 10/01/2016 16:09

Yes puzzled I agree. Nothing will change as a result of this and we'll either sleepwalk back to the middle ages or another minority group will be targeted that deserves more attention.

HelpTheAnimalsFirst · 10/01/2016 16:14

regenerationfez. Yes the late,great Christopher Hitchens coined the phrase "Islamofascist".

VertigoNun · 10/01/2016 16:14

Does anyone want to start www.gov.uk/petition-government a government petition?

polentapies · 10/01/2016 16:16

Puzzled
I know what you mean but ! think that it will certainly stay in the spotlight now. I firmly believe that these threads have been important in the change in the media's perspective, you could almost see it happening real time. Mumsnet is important; these threads have been hugely informative and intelligent. (Ok, derailed a bit this morning but otherwise....)

But yes, we need to make sure that the issues stay focused on the women, not ring wing nutters who want to hijack it for their lunatic racism agenda or the left wingers who would rather we just all shut up about it now as it's, er, making them feel a little uncomfortable