Mass sexual assaults in Cologne and other European cities part III

[GeekLove]

link to part 2

Keeping this in the spotlight since the mainstream media isn't.

emily, it's terrible that you were abused. No one should have to go through that.

However, you go on to say that I just see the misogyny of Europeans as as much of a threat as that of migrants.
No one is arguing that the misogyny of Europeans is not a problem. The concern is that uncontrolled migration from cultures which are more misogynistic than our own will lead to increased misogyny in Europe. This will be shit for women here of any colour and from any background.

You will probably tell me that I am an unexamined racist for saying this. I don't think I am. I am sure there are many men from those cultures who value women (indeed, I know Muslim men who fall into that category, and it doesn't surprise that they do: pleasant, decent people, such as one can find the world over). This is any case a cultural/religious difference and not a matter of race.

The difference between NYE and Oktoberfest appears to be that that in a few hours on NYE way more assaults were reported than during three weeks of Oktoberfest. I don't have the time or the energy to delve into this in depth, so unless someone can provide me with stats to show otherwise, I'll be rewriting my MP's letter.

The difference between NYE and Oktoberfest appears to be that that in a few hours on NYE way more assaults were reported than during three weeks of Oktoberfest.

Exactly this.

Venus, I am not a rape apologist, neither I nor threads stated that women invite attack for any reason, understanding why attacks occur was suggested, which is somethng very different.

You are an apologist for racist and sexist slurs. Not such a staunch defender of women really are you? You don't seem to have much concern for the suggestion that someone should be raped for having a different point of view. Or for the poster, bienchen, that stated groping is 'to be expected' at Oktoberfest, but not at a new year's celebration, 'because that is for families. Stating that women should expect attacks in particular situations IS apologism.

Another difference is that there wasn't an attempted cover up re Oktoberfest, something that Germany and Sweden have been accused of for quite some time.

www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-idUSKCN0S02N220151006

If we cannot start looking at all possible contributing factors it is going to be owned by the far right, and when that blows it's going to be a lot worse.

Thanks Lumelma. That was very kind of you, what you said.

emily, I think polenta made an ill-judged comment: she was clearly as cross as hell, and I could see why she was, as I was too. She was NOT advocating that someone be raped. The word she used was 'offer'. To 'offer your vagina' is not the same as 'I think you should be raped'.

I pissing off now for a bit. I have other things to do.

Sonya - the statistics are consistent on this thread and in the news. Of all the women reporting a crime about 25 - 40% report some kind of sexual assault. A much smaller number report outright rape.

This is consistent with a primary motive being robbery, a significant number some were sexually assaulted as an accessory crime.

A long way back up this thread (or perhaps o thread 2) someone else reported N. African gangs using sexual assault as a distraction for robbery.

The men who did this are criminals with no regard for the victims and whether it be robbery, sexual assault or rape. They should be prosecuted and deported.

I do not agree that this unprecedented attack was as a result of genuine asylum seekers being somehow unable to control themselves because 'that's what all men in M. East and N' Africa are like' but an uncontrolled illegal invasion of criminal gangs of young rootless men into Germany. It happened and there is no denying it. I am still seeking to understand it and bridge the chasm between the handwringing lefty 'you are a racist' response and the far right 'all immigrants are out to rape our daughters' response.

Can I ask for sources on the claim that some of the perpetrators in the Cologne attacks had come from Belgium and France? Because as far as I know the Cologne police haven't managed to apprehend very many of the perpetrators (because they've been pretty bloody useless), so I'm not sure how this claim could be verified.

I'm worried that it sounds the sort of far-fetched someone-told-someone-told-someone rumour which takes over (precisely due to the failure of the likes of the BBC and Guardian to do a decent job of reporting the issue). Happy to be corrected if someone has details, but I think it is a real worry that while the establishment busily try to downplay events, the far right will use the failure of the establishment to spread all sorts of shit.

Yeah nothing to see here move on!

There was a march by Turkish men yesterday in Istanbul in support of women's rights.

They marched in miniskirts.

2016IsANewYearforMe Sorry you are right I had misread informatioin. it was Police force that was sent to the German borders and not Army. Police Association DpolG responded to de Meziaire Interior Minister at an interview in DW (I read from translation) that he is to blame for lack of policing because he had sent several of the Federal Police Force to keep the borders.

Fantastic, Onthephone. I have friends in Turkey, and they are deeply worried and upset by the way the current government there is eroding both women's rights and the long standing secularism of the state.

Just, that link ties in with another that was posted on thread 2 - link - which gives more details & stats to support your article.

Emily, you are so determined to see the racism in people's comments, what is your view on the plight of all those women & girls, who are hugely outnumbered by the male refugees, in the threat & attacks that they face as a result of the piss poor efforts by authorities to consider their safety?

It's been mentioned on another thread (see FWR) that this is the racist part of this whole mess - the fact that the plight of women/ girls in the refugee settlement areas/accommodation has been brushed under the carpet/ignored & its not until we have this unprecedented attack on western women on NYE that the huge numbers of male migrants becomes an issue. Incidentally, one that you have already dismissed as an issue.

abetadad not everyone is happy to report sexual crimes. There is no stigma or shame attatched to having your wallet or phone stolen. There is to having your body violated, especially your private parts. Which do you think you would find easier to talk about - someone nicking your phone, or 15-20 men surrounding you,pulling your clothes off ,grabbing your cock and sticking their fingers up your arse? Surely you can understand why crimes of a sexual nature are under reported, and are sure to be here.
Secondly, if it was aimed at stealing property we would expect a lot of theft from men to be reported as well. Has there been?

Lumelna, I know what she meant and 'being cross' was no excuse. Who's minimising now?

The way the Guardian has reported this story has really annoyed me. It's all about racism rather than the rights of women.
Then this was posted yesterday. Maybe I'm being cynical but I do see a link. Sorry, I'm not great at articulating my thoughts.

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/09/my-syrian-refugee-lodger-helen-pidd

Tension, yes to this:
the fact that the plight of women/ girls in the refugee settlement areas/accommodation
I've put that into my new expanded letter too.

It's all appalling.

As I said, feel free to report the post Emily, but again, I expect you have already and noone agrees except yourself and twisted. I am neither racist nor sexist and that remark was not rape apologism. Try reading occasionally and you may start to appreciate the nuances of the English language. You are desperate to win your weak points and mud singing is your only option

I'm bored with this goady shit and so is everyone else. Bye bye now!

I repeat abetadad the woman started she was not robbed .

"Accesory crime" ??

Onthe
Wow! Brilliant! do you have a link?

Perhaps you are consciously goading. Bye.

Olive thank you. I know you truly know what you're talking about and it must be maddening to have to listen to nonsense from people who don't.

My Turkish friend who lives in Hamburg emailed me about the NYE attacks. She has two young adult daughters who have grown up in what she believed to be a safe, equal, progressive place for women -one of the main things that drew her to Germany in the first place-and she is absolutely fucking furious. But perhaps one of you apologists can carefully explain to her that she's a racist and that Oktoberfest is just the same.

😨IMPORTANT PLEASE LISTEN PEOPLE 😨

Please can posters go into Site Stuff and complain that these threads have never even been listed in Discussion Of The Day?

Posters who don't go into News won't even be aware that these threads are taking place.

I am suspicious of MNHQ's motives for the omission of these important discussions.

How can we draw attention to it in Chat as well without it being TAAT?

Twisted "I have written quite a bit on this thread about some of the conditions that I think can contribute to people losing empathy and doing unspeakable things."

Some lose empathy, others gain it via their own dreadful experiences. I used to know loads of immigrants (now gone due to old age) who had survived famine and war while the rest of their families had either died from starvation or been shot. They were haunted people but nevertheless kind and understanding.

I never said the remark was rape apologism. I said Venus was an apologist for the racist and sexist remark you made 'because you were cross.' It was a racist and sexist remark and a peculiar one to make when you claim to care so much about women. It isn't goady to say that remark was racist and sexist. It was. You seem very quick to resort to nasty slurs when people don't agree with you and for someone that claims they didn't make a racist or sexist comment, you seem pretty concerned about your comment being reported.