Mass sexual assaults in Cologne and other European cities part III

[GeekLove]

link to part 2

Keeping this in the spotlight since the mainstream media isn't.

On the first thread in this topic I was roundly criticised for saying that this mass sexual assault in Cologne was a complex cocktail of factors. Branded as an apologist Guardian reader for saying that we should not knee jerk attack recent Syrian migrants refugees. I suggested the primary motive was theft by criminal gangs already living n Germany drawn from a wide range of immigrant groups.

In fact I am vehemently opposed to immigration and am a UKIP supporter.

Since then I have continued to read the news and my view has matured.

In my view this mass sexual assault was perpetrated by rootless young men from N Africa, M. East and Balkans who have arrived mingled with genuine asylum seekers as 'economic migrants' and 'illegal immigrants'.

They are exactly the same as low life petty criminal thugs that populate our inner cities in the UK. Chancers, who are on the look out for easy money, who are drawn into gang culture. Skipping between countries with no roots and no identity they have little to lose and little chance of being prosecuted.

Such men have arrived in Germany, taken advantage of lax policing and the 'open door' policy the Merkel adopted. Once there they drifted into street gangs.

Their modus operandi in the countries they came from is to pickpocket, thieve, drug deal, pimping, trafficing. Its what they did in ther own country and women out on NYE in Germany were just easy pickings. Sexual assault as either a distraction technique for thieving or just an additional criminal activity is what happened. Some were in organised criminal gangs of 30 - 40 men, others just joining in seeing an opportunity like the periodic riots in our inner cities in the UK.

Problem is Germany has allowed these low life criminals to enter the country unchecked and now is paying the price - or rather ts female citizens are.

This is not about genuine refugees (there is my Guardan reader concience) but about young male criminal elements who we should have strictly excluded (there is my UKIP attitude).

Some of these men may have been ISIS or rebel fighters but only in as much as they were chancing their arm for money, women, drugs, guns and trouble. This is not a Daesh organised terror plot albeit some may be drawn to that extreme eventually.

Back in 2003, there were concerns re Oktoberest.

'But the folksy reputation has been tarnished by the rising number of rapes. At last year's festival, six rapes and 11 other sex attacks were reported. Police estimate that the real rape figure is as high as 120'. 120 rapes is a lot isn't it?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/1442185/Sex-sanctuary-set-up-at-Oktoberfest.html

But WidleWoman,we are talking about sexual assaults made in public places, the same kinds of crimes appearing in public.

Twisted: "maybe you don't need to try to understand why things happen"

Okay, Why do you think the sex attacks happened then, Twisted. Please advise.

"emily these include severe sexual assaults ie digital penetration, classed as rape in many countries. But by all means labour the point that only two of the reported violations were carried out with a penis."

I find Emily's latest posts, with their attempts to diminish the seriousness of the NYE events, totally shocking. I suggest that everyone here would be justified in simply ignoring any further posts from her.

Bienchen interesting 'Minister for Justice thinks … men from Belgium Holland and France were asked to come to Cologne for the event (cannot think of a better word atm)' I wonder why these men avoided problems in the above countries and chose to f**k up Cologne and several German towns. There is high security in France and Belgium and increased police and army are armed to the teeth. The Law needs to deal with sex assaults most heavily and if it is inadequate the Law must change. Police in Cologne ought to have dealt with the assaults. They said they did had 100 officers on site (one officer per 10 men) Police also had law and powers to enforce and put down the perpetrators no matter the scale. Police heard the crowd were only men without families and were young. I heard the army was sent to keep the borders but also police had asked for army which was unavailable. But seems an 'invisible hand' was holding up things up - any one has a clue who that was? I am in the dark and a lot many more of questions need to be asked to our German politician neighbours.

No WildeWoman,I have never said anyone should shut up about it. I have talked instead about the hypcrisy in claiming this is something done in public largely by men of a particular ethnic group orreligion and have argued that this kind of attack is not new.

Grace, 'If Emily would like to compare Oktoberfest to koln's problem I'd be delighted to take her out for a night in eg Brussels. I'll be wearing a onesie ski-suit'. For what reason?

But that is DIFFERENT Emily. It is DIFFERENT, because, it is not a pre-planned attack on Western society. It is not a weapon of war. THAT is why this is different.

That said, I can see it being a prime target for more of the Cologne style immigrant-mass-sexual-assault this year.

So, on top of the 'usual' number, we will see mass assaults on Western women by Arab/North African men. Frightening really.

The attacks happened because they were premeditated coordinated across European cities on the same night, it was arranged via social media, some had translation scripts in their pockets to read to women, I want to kill you etc. Over 400 women have come forward, I'm assuming this number will increase over time.a very similar situation occurred in Finland, but was intercepted by police. Perhaps if the helensinki attacks hadn't been intercepted , because the police there new groups of men were planning to do the same, the same thing might have happened, there were 1000 men gathered outside the train station there, maybe if the police hadn't stopped Helsinki alot of people would have a different view of cologne

ABetaDad I think your post is spot on. Germans can be very naive; the view that people could be so devious as actually not being Syrian refugees but people from other countries posing as such would not cross many minds.

She said so upthread. Pure rape apologism about how terrible the men's lives were and how it's understandable that they would want to do something which gave them a little bit of power. That was the context for polenta's remark by the way, it didn't just come out of nowhere.

I hadn't heard all that MariscallRoad. I heard that the attacks were planned on social media and that men had travelled from other countries to take part, but not that the Army was holding the border or that the police asked for assistance from the Army. In fact it was reported that the police declined assistance from another nearby police force.

DespicableBee - you have articulated what I was trying to say. Thanks.

That was to Help, in answer to your question to Twisted.

Maris I also wondered why there were no reports of similar attacks in Belgium or France. The policing there would probably mean groups of men out together would be scrutinized by police.

I think as time goes on, more truths about what happened across Europe on nye will come out. More women are coming forward each day. The police investigation is now massive, a few days ago there were eight police officers viewing the CCTV footage, this has now been increased to 100. So surely in time there will be more arrests,

I think the BBC (and others) news reports of "harassment" and even "sexual assault" have probably left a lot of people under informed about what the women have reported to police. My husband was shocked when I explained what had gone on. (It would be rape in English law I think?)

Yes and there were lots of extra police in London on NYE too. I imagine for anti-terror reasons.

'She said so upthread. Pure rape apologism about how terrible the men's lives were and how it's understandable that they would want to do something which gave them a little bit of power. That was the context for polenta's remark by the way, it didn't just come out of nowhere'.

She was not apologising for rape and even if she had, a sexist and racist response like polenta's would still not be right?

But she didn't. She just didn't fit in with what you are saying or polenta and that was the response she got for daring to disagree!

Had some Facebook/ Twitter feed lines with "women against tarahhush". Apparently a flash mob sexual attacks. Will research when not on phone so have not commented or re tweeted until I know real meaning.

I have written quite a bit on this thread about some of the conditions that I think can contribute to people losing empathy and doing unspeakable things. I obviously don't have all the answers. We hardly even know many of the facts.

Sonya - rape in English law is explicitly penetration by a penis. But the sentencing guidelines are the same for sexual assault, so severe sexual assaults carry just as heavy a penalty as rape, and in that sense, are equally serious in the eyes of the law. At least that's my understanding of current law. I think the idea behind retaining separate offences (some American states I think now just have a blanket offence of sexual assault) is that rape carries possible consequences - pregancy, STIs - which digital penetration or penetration with an object do not, hence should be treated separately.

Emily

What do you think rape apologism is? You really need a better dictionary. Saying "the men just can't help themselves, poor things" is rape apologism.

www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/05/egypt-women-rape-sexual-assault-tahrir-square
Remarkable similarities in the tactics. Circle of hell indeed.

I think it is hard for the nice middle class people of Germany (or indeed any West European country) to understand how vile life is outside the cosy existence of their well ordered life.

The worst examples of human existence, man's inhumanity to man and the basest criminal activity are happening in N. Africa, M. East and E. Europe yet we open our arms to people crossing borders without question.

These features of those cultures will inevitably come to us with uncontrolled mass migration. That is why I want borders closed and the UK to leave the EU.

I have great sympathy to genuine immigrants who are feeling war and we should use our foreign aid budget to assist temporary asylum until Syria can be reconstructed and the current war stopped. I welcome people who wish to bring, skills and investment to our island and live in a law abiding way but we cannot be naïve to the criminal elements among immigrant asylum seekers.

Germany IS reaping the whirlwind.

ABetaDad I saw an interview with a woman sexually assaulted on nye in Cologne by A mass of men. She came away withphone unscathed. Why are you determined it wsxprimarily a series of crimes against property? I do not understand you.