Mass sexual assaults in Cologne and other European cities part III

[GeekLove]

link to part 2

Keeping this in the spotlight since the mainstream media isn't.

Emily, that's so sad that Women feel it's pointless reporting. I guess it's way the reports have quadrupled, since the press started to report the NYE issue.

Crikey, this sounds familiar, ' I have seen servers get groped by men by the hour. As we pass, the men, often drunk just grab our behinds and our chests as if we are playthings for them,” she told Bikyamasr.com, her anger in obvious form. “There was always some grabbing and harassment, but this year it is out of control.”

This seems like a good source. www.nsvrc.org/news/news-field/18434

Hopefully Germany might change the outdated law on sexual assault/rape and issue better guidelines to police on how they deal with victims as a result of this.

Polenta your comment to me was vile and it is strange that on a thread like this only Emily picked up on it:

Better watch out for the hangover tomorrow, don't trip over your halo. May you offer your vagina to a few of them as recompense?

There is talk on here about how those (2?) of us that are saying something different to the rest are trying to shut you all up, by mentioning racism (which I haven't actually mentioned but hey). You will not find anything from either of us that is silencing. That comment by you was an unpleasant way to shut me up in response. I would say it was racist and sexist. Maybe a joke, but if so a racist and sexist one.

I haven't asked for it to be deleted because I think it shows something of the feelings going on here.

In fact it does not have to be silencing to talk about racism or about sexism. I would argue everyone has beliefs that are unconsciously based on racism and sexism and all kinds of prejudices and othering. That doesn't in itself make anyone bad. But it needs to be thought about and challenged.

I think your comment polenta was racist but I expect you didn't realise that it was.

So, 12 women each year report rape or attempted rape. Oktoberfest runs for 3 weeks.
In contrast, hundreds of women have reported being raped, attempted rape or sexual assault in one night in Cologne, in a pre-planned attack.
Emily I'm not sure how you can argue that this is the same thing.
It's also nonsense to say that people only care about sexual assaults when carried out by immigrants. You just don't know what people's involvement in women's rights are.
People are understandably freaked out because a) this is previously unheard of b) there was an attempted cover-up c) it was large-scale, wide-spread and pre-planned.
What woman in their right minds would go, oh well rapes and harassment already happen so let me not be upset at the total upping of the ante?

Emily if you work as a server at Oktoberfest you know to expect groping. Yes it is wrong but you know that you need to be prepared for that and you can also accidentally drop a stein on the idiot's hand.

The fireworks are family entertainment. People go as a family to watch, you don't expect sexual harrassment. The police report explicitly commented at the number of families with shocked and crying children they were met with on arrival at the station in Cologne; I am not aware of similar occurences at the Oktoberfest. Read into this what you like but in my opinion the two events cannot be compared.

I went on the Guardian fb page to read their articles and they requested I completed a survey. I have given them my email and will report back.

Bienchen, women at Oktoberfest were groped. Some were raped. How on earth do you know there was no genital groping? Even if there wasn't, they are still serious public attacks with police inaction and inadequate recourse to law, women describing once again, 'running a gauntlet.'

There were large numbers of women attacked. There were attacks by groups of men.

These are public attacks which I view with the same outrage.

The police officers also reproted that when witnesses were giving statements they were intimidated by the attackers and the witnesses were followed.

All this is relevant and new and cannot be compared to the Oktoberfest.

How about you challenge your thinking a bit, Twisted? I see a lot of lecturing others on their prejudices as perceived by you. Don't see much else. Do you want the far right to control the narrative on this? People like you are enabling them.

Why don't you think cultural background is an important element to consider here? Why the persistent attempts to minimise it as a factor?

Emily this does not get us anywhere. NYE was coordinated attack by gangs who activly formed cordons around their victin(s) to prevent police getting to them. I am not aware of similar happenings at say Oktoberfest. It also happened in other cities around Europe, same pattern.

Bienchen, double standards much? So you can expect groping at a festival, but not a train station or new year celebration? Hmm. How about no groping anywhere because it's illegal eh? People should not expect sexual harrassment ANYWHERE. The two events are comparable and there are alarming parallels in the way that the men seem to feel quite free to assault people withoutmuch fear of consequences.

I agree SlaggyIsland.

Emily's stance is a bit like a scenario where when your house is burgled, you go 'Oh shit, this is awful, but this is happening EVERYWHERE, so I must either campaign for NO BURGLARIES EVER ANYWHERE and if I can't achieve that, then why should I report or be concerned about this one burglary of my home'

It makes no sense.

Don't be concerned by crime numbers increasing. There is crime EVERYWHERE.

Blah blah blah blah me fucking arse blah blah............

Hah! Well timed cross-post with Emily and me there - where we both put ANYWHERE in ALLCAPS.

QED.

Yes, there is a parallel in that men of all colours and creeds know that they can get away with sexual assault, but as Bienchen points out the specific circumstances of this incident are quite unique.

LOL @ Wilde. Yes, that's about right.

If Emily would like to compare Oktoberfest to koln's problem I'd be delighted to take her out for a night in eg Brussels. I'll be wearing a onesie ski-suit.

Yes Twisted, I have mentioned racism repeatedly. You haven't, but we are being lumped together. Yes, polenta's comment was racist and sexist and I think that is sometimes the problem,ingrained racism or sexism that has become normalised.

Slaggy, hundreds of women have not been reporting rape in Cologne from new year. There are two accounts of rape so far and many reports of sexual assault.

From the Guardian, 'About 100 complaints have now been made to police, two-thirds of which are linked to sexual assault, including two rapes.

If we consider that Oktoberest is over a number of weeks the number of rapes is actualyl very similar. The number of assaults overall in both instances and the nature of them is difficult to quantify as many go unreported and it quibbling over exact numbers is a bit pointless. What is important is that similar crimes have been occurring in public for years.

Also, who's to say that men don't go to Oktoberest with a plan to attack women too?

Anyone receive a reply from the Guardian?

There is more shit published today. I feel like my outrage is from a parallel universe.

Where are the mainstream feminists?

Twisted: "I think if we want it not to happen again- then yes we need to try to understand it."

Understand the attacks? Only from a strategic aspect perhaps, and in order to ensure that at next year's NYE the message has been transmitted to and understood by police and judiciary that this is not drunken men being over-familiar.

The onus does not fall on women to analyse why they were attacked in this particular way. i.e. if I join a new firm, it is not up to those already there to adjust themselves to me - a new personality within the group - but rather for me to adjust to the other employees. These attacks are HATE crimes and should be dealt as such under EC law, that is if they are able to apprehend even one of the perps.

venus- I have said repeatedly that I think we need to consider and understand culture.

Ok Emily. This has been going on for years and years and is rampant and EVERYWHERE. So, we'll shut up about it now. Happy?

Help ok- maybe you don't need to try to understand why things happen. Lets always just be reactive, retaliate and punish and not try to understand causes of anything in order to prevent them. I don't think that will produce a safer world.

It's easy to understand. Very easy to understand. Simple even!

There are only two posters on here who can't understand the problem. The two posters who are telling us we should try to understand, because they don't understand.

The rest of us understand the problem already. We will hope that you will, with time, catch up...............

emily these include severe sexual assaults ie digital penetration, classed as rape in many countries. But by all means labour the point that only two of the reported violations were carried out with a penis.