Mass sexual assaults in Cologne and other European cities part III

[GeekLove]

link to part 2

Keeping this in the spotlight since the mainstream media isn't.

Western culture values some women more than it did 100 years ago

i feel really alienated by the way this is framed as immigrant rights vs women's rights, as though some of us aren't both

The concerns I feel about right wing rhetoric being whipped up are because this jeopardises my actual safety

this is in addition to already feeling unsafe re sexual assaults

A person can be worried about both

The Helsinki reports are from the police and were reported on by the afp news agency for one. I really should learn to do links. Sorry.

Great post Olive

I worked in the Middle East for 8 years and loved it, but there is no doubt that an undercurrent of misogyny exist in some of the cultures. There is a very good reason that there are separate queues for women in many places for example, it's about safety -for the women.

Emily - rapes in Western society ARE of concern to us all I'm sure.

But, this is a new phenomenon.

This is mass assault. This is assault on Western women committed by people who not just loathe women, but loathe our society. It is not just women they are attacking, it is our way of life. And they are here essentially as guests.

This is DIFFERENT. Ok?

Can you accept that this is different? Even slightly different? A teensy weensy bit different? No? ok, didn't think so

Ch1bi I agree with a lot of what you are saying. The current German response will be impacting the refugee women most!

No, emily, it's your failure to see these mass attacks as a new and dangerous thing that is misogynist.

If you close this debate down, and frighten centre/left women away from this discussion, you are handing the field to the far Right. That is, frankly, idiotic.

Olive I had wanted to respond to your post last night because I thought it was interesting. You said something about how you have observed from experience, that islam gets abused more by people in poverty.

I am truly sorry that you have been a victim of sexual assault.

I also want women and girls to be safe and have freedom. And men and boys too. But I think that an important way that we keep safe is by understanding what causes people to become so disturbed that they brutalise others. And I do think in this instance the powerlessness and abuse that refugees face is absolutely relevant.

There are plenty of women and children in calais and dunkirk. They experience violence from the french police frequently. Where is the outcry and news coverage about that? There are small children there whose trauma is being exacerbated daily. If they grow up dissociated and finding that the only mark they can make on the world is through violence, I would not find that too extraordinary. Im not saying it would be right, but I would have some understanding of why it happened.

Women here are outraged that a crime against women didn't get reported properly. We are continually seeing how certain acts of violence get much more coverage than others. And that adds a further layer to making so many people feel like their lives just don't matter. That they count for absolutely nothing. Did you see about the 15 year old child who died in France this week in a lorry trying to get to the uk to be with his sister? There are many others like him- child protection doesn't seem to exist right on our doorstep. By allowing the daily neglect and abuse of traumatised people to continue there, we are exacerbating the chances of more violence in the world. As hopelessness grows stronger, some people may feel they have nothing left but to break and smash their way into others consciousness.

None of that means we can't think about the role of islam. Nor does it mean we can't think about the particular ways that women get abused by men and why. But to talk about immigration, integration and how to stop violence in this context, I think does involve considering the bigger picture. Including why there are so many refugees currently and how they are being treated not only in their original countries, but also after they leave.

I am not saying any of this out of fear of being called racist. This is what I think.
I wish religion didn't exist in the world, because so much harm is done in its name. But there are reasons for that too.

fourmummy: thank you for the link. It wasnt this article you posted but rather your own words spelling out that a woman inherits far less than her brother, and other discrepanices. (I do seem to remember that the post was from a Sudanese lady,so you?). I will read this anyway - thanks.

Ch1bi that sounds really hard for you. That is one of the reasons I'm so keen for the nettle to be grasped on this issue rather than a cover-up - if it's not addressed it will fester horribly and have an impact on the safety of immigrants and minorities, no doubt about it.

I'm actually living in the Middle East just now. I feel very safe where I am but due to various factors my behaviour patterns are quite different to when I'm UK-based - eg I can't drive so am nearly always out and about with my DH. I know women who have been harassed here. But we're lucky that it's definitely one of the safer of the countries in the region with a strong rule of law.

what about the women who aren't white

What colour do you assume I am and what possible relevance does it have? I'm a woman. That's all you need to know.

I don't categorise women, or indeed anyone, by the colour of their skin.

I'm my book, that's racist.

For the purposes of clarity, in my posts women=those who are female.

I'm not wasting my, or anyone else's intellect and energy on a race debate on this thread.

It's about culture.

twisted just seen your long thoughtful post, real life calls so may I respond later?

Some interesting points raised, thank you.

It was a coordinated and planned attack, coordinated through social media, throughout different cities in Europe on the same night, the Helsinki sounds similar when you read about it

I am up for meeting up to lobby MP's.

I am going to use your helpful ideas and formulate an MP email. My MP responds to emails.

Lumela, this kind of attack is not new. From what I gave read about Oktoberfest, the scale isn't new either. The outrage in the press is new, but that is because of their appearance and current debate about migration and the refugee crisis. All rapists attack our way of life and values, wherever they are from. It is viewed as more terrifying because they are seen by many as 'the other.'
As another poster said, why are not all sex attacks by German men attacks of terror? When the white man groped me in the pub I worked in front of groups of men that didn't raise a whisper, why was he not attacking our values? He certainly didn't represent the values of most people I know! He was a football hooligan, built like a brick shithouse and I am five foot two. Why did customers to the pub comment freely on my body and what they thought if it? Why did the man in my friendship group drug women and then rape women? He didn't value equality clearly either. Neither did my brother that abused me for years or my parents that shamed me for going to the police. I was tokd I temoted him by my white Christian mother. I repeat, Western culture does not value women. If the in Cologne are a tipping point for us to say 'enough is enough', that is great, I just see the misogyny of Europeans as as much of a threat as that of migrants.

I haven't read the whole thread, but just in case you haven't seen this Telegraph article. www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/cologne-sex-attacks-something-terrible-took-place-here-but-its-a/

I was also quite horrifed by the way the BBC reported on Merkel's comments about deporting people. They mentioned the attacks, without saying that they were attacks on women by largely Muslim men. I usually have a high regard for the BBC's reporting, but certainly not in this case.

Wilde not sure how to express this. It seems a kind of behaviour that is commonplace in some countries and is now surfacing in Germany as well. Not only women but men too should speak out against this. It is despicable criminal behaviour and I wonder whether it could be punished as 'Landfriedensbruch' here. I think this was mentioned on a previous thread.

News reports now also about sexual violence against women in asylum seeker accommodation. This has so far only been talked about cautiously and very much in private by people who work there or volunteer.

www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article150820325/Fluechtlinge-bedraengen-Frauen-in-Erstaufnahme.html

This needs to stay in the news and we need to find out what exactly happened and why information was suppressed. Whatever happened to investigative journalism? Who profits from keeping these happenings quiet? I cannot find much info on the NYE events from other countries in the German media and wonder that more informaion is withheld.

So it was like Oktoberfest in scale. Any German residents able to comment on that?

I view these attacks not just sexual, anti-European or women-hating, but racist. A good lawyer could file a motion under Race Law. That is the driver behind this.

Also, staggering the degrees of outrage to what is deemed worse or less worse sexual violence is problematic in itself and a symptom of the patriarchal system.

II would be up with lobbying out MPs. Mine has regular surgwries and I want to get a group of us to do that. I am in the West midlands so PM me if you want more details.

I'll draft a form letter as well.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11127814/British-man-raped-at-Germanys-Oktoberfest.html

Emily every rape is a case too much. But this is done as a mass organised attack not an individual attack. It will be getting followers as it is nearly a oerfect crime. I am not downplaying other cases of rape/assault, far from it. So pls leave the Oktoberfest etc out, the events cannot be compared. But if we don't stand up now and stamp this behaviour out as it surfaces it will become acceptable. Cultures do clash here! If other countries do not wish to punish this behaviour I do pity their female population.

I would like us to find ways to tackle sexual attacks of this kind and media coverage. I am disgusted by the arms length advice and recommendations to stay in at night.

www.vice.com/en_uk/read/rape-culture-germany-cologne-new-years-2016-876

Sonya it was nothing like Oktoberfest. Full stop.
Differences include:

• large numbers of females attacked
• attack by gangs of men
• appears to have been organised in advance via social networks
• carried out by men of a similar background (North African/Arab looking)
• police were attacked with fireworks explosives and bottles
• women in groups and with the partners were attacked
• lots of genital groping

Nothing like Oktoberfest!!

I've posted a few articles re Oktoberest. There are a lot online. It is estimated that a lot of attacks go unreported.

www.spiegel.de/international/germany/wristbands-against-assault-new-initiative-aims-to-keep-young-women-safe-at-oktoberfest-a-778148.html