Mass sexual assaults in Cologne and other European cities part III

[GeekLove]

link to part 2

Keeping this in the spotlight since the mainstream media isn't.

Twisted

Surely we can both look at the reality of misogyny across all cultures, and properly tackle this specific incident and try to ensure it doesn't happen again? I don't have the answers, but it's wrong to leave out key elements or pretend culture isn't important. The discussion needs to be had, not suppressed, brushed under the carpet and covered up when questions are asked. That is what happened in Rotherham and Rochdale.

There is a LOT of food for thought on these threads for politicians to read and assimilate. We are 50% of the electorate. And by jaysis, I for one, am going to vote based on how I see this issue being tackled.

I also have a lot of ladies/voters with whom I engage in intelligent debate with. As has every poster and lurker on here.

Our voice WILL be heard. We'll make damned sure of it.

I also said Lumela, 'normal and acceptable to many of you.' It was not directed toward you.
Oh, jolly good. But the implication I took from it was that the thread was riddled with racists. And since I hadn't challenged anyone for being a racist, I assumed you were including me. FWIW, I think most of the posters on this thread are not racist. A minority seem to be.

As for patronising me... telling me what to write to my MP. Something like 'should raise issues about all violence to women when writing to mps'. Seriously?

This is such a tiny number of refugees, so it is clearly not about them being muslim- we have to really understand what on earth is going on that makes people do these things if we want things to change

And what is your opinion if it turns out to be 2nd/3rd generation a la Rotherham can we then discuss cultural issues, should we just cut them more slack or should we try and tackle the elephant in the room.

No one is trying to blanket cover all immigrants, nor all Muslims, the thread and current situations have moved the topic further.

I am certain she has her own mind.
Bloody right she has. 'Suggested' indeed. You know, when I wrote a letter to my MP I cautiously offered to post it here in case anyone felt they'd like a template. I didn't say, 'I think you should all write something like this'.

Thanks, Venus.

Look. Some of us will see this as a misogynistic issue. Some will see it as a cultural issue. Some will CLAIM that it is in fact our racism that is the issue.

Either way, email your MPs and MEPs.

These dudes/dudettes are on facebook too. I follow my preferred party on FB. I have signed up to their website as a member so to speak.

There are lots and lots of ways to be heard. But these are the guys who need to hear us. Lone voices, 'twiterring' or 'waffling' are easily drowned out.

Do it now. Email them!

Missswans, what would I be banned for?

Bit of finger wagging there, telling you what you ought to do Lumela. You really should know better, my dear!

I didn't say that either Lumela.

The thread IS riddled with racists Lumela.

Thank you for the link Wildwoman. I shall tackle it tomorrow.

"we have to really understand what on earth is going on that makes people do these things if we want things to change"

No we fucking don't. We need to lock them up or turf them out. Or should we assigning counselling to rapists and child abusers. Get a grip

Assigning counseling? Get real that'll cost too much money. Money the state wont fork out

Point them out and report then Emily, or quote and shame.

You've read the full threads, should be easy to skim back through and find them, and I'm sure you will find the subsequent posts where everyone is agreeing with them or (most likely) you will see no response.

If you genuinely find any of mine I would be interested.

The problem is being called a racist seem to be a bigger crime than questioning men for raping children and women. This happened in the UK it was shouted down and went on for years. I am not giving any man a free pass because he does not know better/ other men do it/ it was just a bit of how's you father. Excepting the numbers that Germany have was always going to cause trouble no matter what the nationalities. People questioning if this cannot be policed how can Germany continue is a viable question.

Indeed Just. Name the racists Emily

Are the rapists not racist?

Who were they and who did they attack?

emilybohemia I like your username gin talking but that's about it.

The vast majority of posters on the last 2 threads are neither anti-immigration nor racist, thank you very much. We don't need you to save us from our blind spot wrt our terrible racist minds, thank you. Some of us have family in the various affected regions and quite complex racial or ethnic backgrounds so mostly, most people are rather nice and culturally 'sensitive'. Being ethnic, of course doesn't mean one can't be racist but the, as said hundreds of posts previously large parts of middle Eastern society are racist and sexist to boot. But that's not really the point.

In part 1 and 2 people have pretty much clarified why being called 'racist' in response to challenging the misogynist behaviour of specific cultural groups is what they take issue with. Many of us are concerned that the media are not reporting honestly about the events. Most of us understand that social cohesions is important for the wellbeing of the population and national security. However I reject the notion that social cohesion can be sustained through gas lighting, whitewashing and censorship as beautifully demonstrated by the Guardian.

There is indeed a lot of emotion on these threads. It's anger at women's rights coming at the bottom of the policy pile in Europe at this point in time. And yes, taking in streams of single male migrants in an uncontrolled fashion is already causing trouble for many women in Europe. But we don't seem to be allowed to talk about it or challenge this. Which sucks mightily.

People with brown skin can't be racist. Just imperialist white people, Especially the white women who complain about being molested

Oh dear ...here we go again.
emily/twisted I am not blanket anti-immigration...
I am however extremely concerned about mass, possibly organised, sexual assaults on women in several cities carried out by men of N african/Arabic appearance.
Most of who it seems were recent immigrants - one of which ripped up his papers and said he'd just get new ones - so had no fear of the consequences of his actions. If that is true that alone imo is extremely worrying.
I am also concerned that it was not reported for days, was subject to what appears to be an attempted cover up and minimising by main stream news organisations and politicians. Because of fear of stirring up the right wing? Or because of fear of being labelled racist? (Would the cover up have happened if it was a group of white German men?)
I am even more concerned that the response was to advise women to keep themselves safe by not going out at night etc - that they should change their behaviour because the state could no longer protect them.
Can you disagree with any of that?
Taken all those things together - and then add in the fact that these men come from a culture that has misogynistic tendencies and does seem to have a less than savoury attitude to western women - I am extremely concerned and worried for my daughter's future.
I think we do need to take action...not accept our hard won freedoms being curtailed.
I do not think we (Europe) should take in any more young male refugees at the moment - or at least be much more circumspect about doing so. I thought at the time and I still do -Cameron had it absolutely right - to take in families from the camps.

I also think we need to look at the treatment of women in certain sections of our society and stop being afraid to offended. Say it is not acceptable any more -for any reason -religious, cultural etc . (And not just in Islam - the car driving and orthodox Jewish school spring to mind).

venus- culture does indeed have to be thought about- but that includes global culture- the fact that we live in a world where some children starve to death while others have more than they need. Where some of us can debate on our computers on mn while others are seriously exploited so that we can have fancy laptops or iPhones to do this.
This is not derailing- it is relevant.
And then we add something like war, children seeing their families murdered and their homes destroyed, and you add rape- your body is nothing but for others' sadistic use, and then you add again hunger and poverty and the need to do anything you can, no matter how demeaning, dangerous or painful to survive. And then perhaps it is not surprising if a tiny tiny minority of the refugees who make it here are furious and so disturbed that they too want to be the ones who have enough power to cause someone else to feel something- even if its hurt and fear.

So we have to allow them to take it out on us Twisted?

Great, where do I sign up?

You have a vivid way of imagining the lives of others twisted.

I thought the guys running the transport hub in Cologne nye were from the mahgreb or germany anyway?

It's not helpful, Twisted. This specific incident is going to need some sort of response. You surely realise that not all the world's problems can be solved in one fell swoop. Some things are not going to be resolved in the short term, they need a massive cultural shift. I don't feel that shutting down a more practical debate on the complex issues involved to idealistically pontificate about how the world should be is a good thing to do. It is derailing. And if the only people talking about it are the far right, they will control the narrative.

I'm sorry. Not going to feel sorry for rapists or abusers, whatever their personal circumstances. You're minimising, like Gaby Hinsliff did in the Guardian. No woman who has been raped or sexually assaulted should ever be made to feel privileged.

Emily, the Canadian government is in the process of welcoming 25,000 Syrian refugees, carefully selected and vetted from the camps. No single men allowed, only families, women and children. The problems of not vetting, of rewarding those who can smash and grab and pay criminals, of allowing 80% young men - this insanity of Merkel's was obvious to any normal person six months ago and I'm sure it's a factor in Trudeau's policy. But I suppose they're just big racists.