Mass sexual assaults in Cologne on New Years Eve Part II

[Pinkchampchoccies]

Just in case people want to continue discussing this.

"The aim is to weaken indeoendent sovereign nations and make them part of a supranational union."
Whatever for?

UNHCR demographics:
58 % men
25 % children
17 % women

data.unhcr.org/mediterranean/regional.php

Once Turkey was accorded concessions in terms of the EU, it's surprising how many people smugglers they managed to stop The "winners" in this process are the criminals making fortunes from smuggling people - I would not be at all surprised if that is part of similar organised crime rings we see in Europe.

red me too!

UNHCR links on those arriving through the Med here 58% men

Registered Syrian refugees (includes those in Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Turkey, Iraq and elsewhere in N Africa, but not IDPs) here - approximately 50/50 (this is a more "normal" refugee distribution, but ordinarily, women and children would be more highly represented)

A UNHCR report in December, concerning Syrians specifically, the most common reported occupation was "student", 58% intended to bring family members to their country of asylum and 78% were under 35 (details here

I linked on the last thread to the IOM reports and figures for Europe land movements etc

Wasn't Merkel on about raising an army?

Sorry completely off topic, and proberbly completely irrelevant.

It's late and i'm thinking out loud

x post, fourmummy!

This article explains that the majority of refugees are in Turkish camps

"Turkey is the country currently hosting the largest number of Syrian refugees. According to an earlier statement from Deputy Prime Minister Numan Kurtulmuş, who is responsible for refugees, there are nearly 2.2 million Syrian refugees are currently living in Turkey. However, this figure only includes those Syrians who came to Turkey legally, but there are also Syrians who have entered Turkey illegally without being officially registered. Many unregistered Syrians are also believed to be in Turkey."

www.todayszaman.com/national_22-mln-syrian-refugees-in-turkey-struggling-demand-better-living-conditions_404561.html

This article explains that Turkey is pivotal in the refugees coming to Europe and how Merkel had to pony up 3 billion of European taxpayer money to them in order for them to tighten their borders and reduce the flow of refugees leaving Turkish camps and being smuggled to Europe by Turks.

"Angela Merkel backs deal offering Turkey up to €3bn to tighten its borders

EU leaders at refugee crisis summit agree to give political support to draft deal which includes offering Ankara visa-free travel to Europe for Turks from 2016"

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/16/angela-merkel-eu-backs-aid-deal-turkey-tighten-borders

claig funnily enough, Erdogan managed to clamp down much harder on the people smugglers once he'd been paid off!

'Wasn't Merkel on about raising an army?'

Yes she wanst a European Army which she will probably get eventually. The European political class has also achieved one of its aims out of the refugee crisis of creating an EU border force which begins the reduction of national sovereignty to some extent

"Migrant crisis: EU launches new border force plan"

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35093827

Orban and Zeman are populists taking the views of the far right from both their countries to bolster their popularity.

Herad of Jobbik? Nazis ever more popular in Hungary? Quite scary, anti Jewish and Roma, did a big march around a Hungarian town to intimidate the local Roma, saying they would be killed. Orban has taken a lot of their right bullshit and made it his own. He spent a lot of cash on propaganda blaming immigrants for stealing Hungarian jobs. When the refugees came he did nothing for them. He is one evil man and a dangerous fascist.

Calling activists people smugglers is pretty low of Orban. One activist, Hans Breuer, is on youtube. His mum was a Jew and in a concentration camp. He saw her having nightmares about her experiences throughout his childhood. He didn't want to see the same happening again. He has helped refugees and he is a hero to me, not a people smuggler.

Zeman is an alcoholic idiot. He has recently aligned himself with 'Bloc Against Islam', a far right group enjoying popularity in the Czech Republic, that want to ban Muslims from the country. There are a number of Muslims already living in the Czech Rep, some refugees from the Bosnian war. One of them is my friend. He is scared by anti Muslim feeling in the Czech Rep. The leader of BlocAgainst Islam, Martin Konvicka, has called for concentration camps for Muslims and jail for those helping refugees. He also said Muslims should be crushed into bone meal. Nice. On the anniversary of the Velvet Revolution, rather than commemorate the event and the part students played in the revolution, Zeman instead joined Konvicka and Pegida member Tommy Robinson onstage to deliver an anti immigrant speech with his usual spiel about the fit young men entering Europe. So I wouldn't take what the Czech President says seriously. He is full of lies and silliness.

People that actually volunteered with refugees say 50 to 60 per cent are families. I believe them, not Zeman. My husband wasn't sure what to makeof the situation before he went as a volounteer and has no cause to lie.

Zeman would be attending mosque if he thought it would maintain his popularity.

Claig, I amsceptical of your last claimtoo.My husband spoke to many people in camps in Serbia that had come from Damascus.

Yes, hefzi. Erdogan got what he wanted out of it. But in reality, Turkey is not the ultimate driver in all of this. It is a significant player, but the real decisions are made above Erodgan's head.

'My husband spoke to many people in camps in Serbia that had come from Damascus.'

Yes, they mainly crossed the Turkish border and were smuggled to Europe via Turkey and the Turkish human smuggling operation for which the Syrians had to pay the Turkish smugglers handsomely.

Agree with Pink. Why?

Ok, just asked DH. His theory:

1. corporates want it (the supranational organisation) because it's easier to lobby/cheaper to bribe one faceless govt rather than many
2. we know that the EU is less democratic, higher pay, less work (as decisions made in Europe) so politicians gain by working for a similar organisation

Will need to mull it over but kind of makes sense.

When Orban uses the term "activists" he is referring to Soros and the billionaires, not the NGOs which some of them fund.

The Czech President believes it is a deliberate operation and so does Orban and so does Poland. Merkel is hostage and has no choice, but the Eastern European countries are refusing to go along with it.

'Whatever for?'

Globalisation, power, control. That is why the powerful are driving through supranational global governance and that is why populist parties and many ordinary people are against it.

Centralised control above the heads of sovereign nations is what this is about. Merkel did not ask the German people, she had no choice. She will probably be toppled because of it but the globalisation process, TTIP and all the rest will still steamroller on without seeking public approval.

Ah right, I misunderstood your meaning re activists. There is a lot of anti Roma, anti Jew, anti Muslim feeling in Eastern Europe which is more full on than in the UK. This explains much of their reluctance. Orban also employs people to rewrite Hungarian history, an attempt to divert attention from Hungarian leaders 'involvement in the Holocaust. Some v nasty leaders in that region at the moment.

The reason political correctness is at the heart of everything is because it is used to silence any dissent. No comments in the politically correct Guardian, no dissent, just agreement.

What happens in November 2016 in America in their elections will determine the future of Europe and the world. If political correctness is defeated in America, then everything will change, but if it wins then "keep at arm's length" advice of the Cologne Mayor will increasingly become the norm.

'This explains much of their reluctance'

No, they want to keep their cultures as Christian. Remember they are far less politically correct than we are because they only escaped politically correct communism recently and they don't want to go back to soemthing similar where their national sovereignty is run by an unaccounatble Brussels elite. They are worried about their culture changing and in those countries, it is not just the people who are worried about it, but alos their political class, unlike in Germany or Western Europe.

Claig -you are not wrong and I know that this is it but still lots of pieces missing. Soros is an old man. What does he want to prove? Ditto for others of his ilk. There are too many unanswered questions. Why would old men want to drive globalisation, TTIP, etc.? What's in it for them?

Fuck sake. this is the fucking witching hour, don't listen to any of the spells; they are cast well

'Soros is an old man. What does he want to prove?'

'Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban accused billionaire investor George Soros of being a prominent member of a circle of "activists" trying to undermine European nations by supporting refugees heading to the continent from the Middle East and beyond.'

Orban says it is a "circle of activists", not just Soros. This is a long term global governance plan that has been in existence from before the European Union was formed. The European Union is just another brick in the wall. Soros is just another team member driving global governance and globalisation for a plutocratic billionaire class above the heads of politicians like Merkel or Orban.

Orban is defying the plan, as are Poland and other Eastern European countries. How long Orban can get away with sticking two fingers up is anyone's guess. Merkel can't, so Orban will probably lose.

'Why would old men want to drive globalisation, TTIP, etc.? What's in it for them?'

Because they are only like managers in a global corporation. The firm's plan has been set out long ago and the current CEOs execute it before handing it over to their successors. Every CEO and "activist" adds another brick in the wall.

Most Czechs don't go to church. During Communism religion was frowned upon, but the majoruty don't go to church. I think it's similar in Hungary, with Poland being quite Catholic in comparison.

I don't think it is fear of their culture changing. I think it is pure racism. Some people are far less politically correct because they are far more racist. Many Czechs view Roma, for example, as inferior. Many view black people as inferior and call them 'niggers.'

Zeman and Orban are not really concerned with maintaining 'Christian' values, they are concerned with being popular and don't spout the anti immigrant line because of conviction, but because they know it is the kind of politics that will make them popular. Both Poland and Hungary are increasingly undemocratic.

I've no idea why you describe Commuinsim as politically correct. They executed and shot opponents of communism.

Political correctness seems to have arisen in order for people to be treated fairly and equally, not to silence dissent as you put it. The Communists were a totalitarian regime, not too interested in those values!

fourmummy - just realised that we may have misunderstood each other earlier this evening. I was listing the sort of outcomes that ISIS probably want. I do agree with you that other people are also upping their anti-ideology-that-is negative-toward-Western-women-and-all-that-entails rhetoric - an outcome that suits us, not ISIS.

'Most Czechs don't go to church.'

True but that doesn't mean they want their culture changed. It is based on Christianity at a deep level, just like ours is too. That is why lots of people are moced for wanting to keep "Merry Christmas" as a greeting at Christmas time and that explains Donald Trump#s success in America too when he brings that up and his rallies cheer him for it.

'I don't think it is fear of their culture changing. I think it is pure racism. Some people are far less politically correct because they are far more racist. '

Watch the American election and you will see it being played out before your eyes. Republican Ben Carson is black and is a Christian and is not politically correct, way different t any of our political class here. He was ahead of not politically correct Trump for a while but has now slipped back.

Voters don't care about race, they care about their country and their culture.

'I've no idea why you describe Commuinsim as politically correct. '

Because the term "political correctness" was originally formed by socialists who used it mockingly of Stalinist communists when the socialists deviated from the approved politically correct line that the Stalinists insisted on.