Mass sexual assaults in Cologne on New Years Eve Part II

[Pinkchampchoccies]

Just in case people want to continue discussing this.

I wouldn't see a resurgence of the far right. I would hazard a guess that most on this discussion are at least a little to the left, yet are able to see and discuss a serious issue without swinging dramatically to the right!

Claig Is this the kind of thing you are referring to? (apologies if not)

www.westernspring.co.uk/the-coudenhove-kalergi-plan-the-genocide-of-the-peoples-of-europe/

This doesn't contribute to the discussion at all but does anyone else just swing between boiling rage, tears and/or utter despair? I look at my beautiful, bright, shining daughter and despair that so many evil bastards want to take her luminosity and snuff it out. A sad face doesn't do justice to the feeling.

noeffingidea yes, thats true. We live amongst them now, and they are treated like the scum they are. This has nothing to do with racist groups. it's about people who are supposed to represent us and give us information walking away and throwing our rights away for us.

What I mean Wilde is that the far right groups in Germany, of which there are many, can I think expect a swelling of support after these attacks.

Which is the last thing we need.

The Coudenhove-Kalergi stuff is a type of conspiracy theory stuff that I haven't read so don't know much about. He has been dead for long time I think so it is not about now.

No I think it has nothing to do with race but is about super rich billionaires who want a global governance world governemnt of which they are in charge and which will eventually strip the liberties of ordinary people for the ebenefit of the super rich class. I think population is at the heart of their plans and they want to implement their solutions for us.

Wasabi absolutely.

Evilcherub apparently receiving a jail sentence of over 1 year is grounds for rejecting asylum applications. Kinda problematic when groping is not a legal offence!

I am certain by the way that this need not be an impediment to rejecting the asylum applications of those concerned and caught. German courts could still dole out the maximum possible sentences for the associated crimes that took place. But I am saying that the legal environment seems far too lax and open to exploitation.

If I were a refugee from the hellish nightmare that is Syria, I am pretty sure I would be thanking the higher powers and host nations that offered me at least shelter, sustenance, education for any children and the ability to move around reasonably freely, and not participating in mass assaults on women and Western values. I do not see why, say, committing a crime meriting a jail sentence of 11 months would not be grounds for rejecting my asylum application.

Claig I see that you are using English words but your meaning is utterly hazy.

Which I think might be a good thing.

I have met Mr Afzal and he is an excellent man. Good piece. Born in this country into a traditional male-dominated Muslim family, and yet he had commonsense enough to evaluate the conditions and behaviours of where his parents came and see how quality of life could be better in UK for everyone, male & female.

I do German visa applications every week. One of the grounds for having your application accepted is demonstrating an awareness of German culture and custom and an ability to abide by that.

'but your meaning is utterly hazy'

I don't want to spell out their plans for us in detail because it is pretty shocking stuff and people wouldn't believe it.

And I think your statement contributes because we experience these feelings, the anger, we must also reflect and act.

I like the Peregrane's suggestions of a MN campaign.

"Can't Mumsnet campaign with the European Parliament and the European Commission to raise this?"

"Can't Mumsnet campaign with the UK government to raise this in the European Council?"

Could MN "use its clout to shame the media for its inadequate handling of the issue (see all the comments about the Guardian upthread)".

"There was a campaign to press on the government to allow in more refugees. Can't we also campaign for women's rights not to be considered a secondary, tertiary etc issue?"

Campaign "for an inquiry into the impact of the gender ratio becoming skewed in our societies (see the Politico article linked earlier).

Campaign for "prioritising education on women's rights, healthy relationships between genders etc in our schools (preferably also delivered by male teachers)."

This is all really good stuff thank you. I think it could be starting point.

"claig" "I don't want to spell out their plans for us in detail because it is pretty shocking stuff and people wouldn't believe it."

Would you mind sharing this in a PM? Very cautious

This is what bothers me about this discussion so far. I remember being on these boards this time last year after the Charlie Hebdo murders and while I am not suggesting any synchronicity to the Cologne incidents, it has made me think that a focus on Cologne from the perspective of sexual violence only does seem to suggest that we'll be leaving untouched other, equally important aspects which have touched our westernised, European culture in the past few years. While below is a sound and commendable goal:

Has anyone called for a Mumsnet campaign? To bring legislation against sexual crime up to to date for the 21st century (as we understand it), for a start, across the EU

it does mean that once we've dealt with this through the campaign, we'll need to set up others in order to address free speech and democracy, perceived insulting of Islam, atheism/other religions, apostasy, LGBT. I can see us coming back to these boards year after year panning the latest Mumsnet campaign about the latest outrage.

Yikes, off topic but I have been so absorbed by this thread that I didn't see the top bar on MN has changed...

There were some posts on Orbán, Soros and "who is behind all this" upthread.

Orbán has an axe to grind with Soros and it's an easy story for people who love conspiracy theories and have seen his name smeared before / know that he actually did have the "power" to force the UK's exit from the pegged exchange rate system a couple of decades ago etc. Soros - a liberal Jew born in Budapest - has absolutely zero interest in promoting this sort of atrocity. In fact he heavily bankrolls an international civil organisation called Open Society that spread European values.

Who is behind all this, at least as far as what is happening on European soil (and following tragically mistaken choices to intervene in Iraq and Libya some years ago)? Islamic fundamentalists who actually do want death to the infidel etc obviously benefit from this stuff. Beyond that, my money is simply on the sheer coincidence of multiple crises, and Western decisionmakers making bad decisions and being overwhelmed by the scale of the tasks.

Wordsaremything Thu 07-Jan-16 20:11:01

I have already been through the process and yes its like talking to the brain washed.

How about a march in solidarity with the women in Cologne? Is this naive?

'Would you mind sharing this in a PM? Very cautious '

It is basically about population control. You have to realise that divide and conquer is used and lots of these Neo-Nazi groups or other groups etc are controlled and are part of the divide and conquer strategy i.e. lots of organisations are not for real and are used to further destabilisation and an agenda.

Gaddafi had trouble working it out as reported in yesterday's Daily Mail

"Colonel Gaddafi foretold the rise of ISIS in phone calls to Blair, and warned that Europe would be attacked – and deluged by flood of Middle Eastern migrants
Transcripts of their conversations in 2011 published for the first time today
Gaddafi said extremists forced civil war and would attack Europe next
Dictator said enemy was Al Qaeda and asked: 'Do you support terrorists?
...
Gaddafi asks Blair if he sympathises with Al Qaeda after former Prime Minister recommends against an armed response

Blair responded by saying: 'No, absolutely not, the important thing is how do we get to a point where this thing can end in a peaceful way?'

The fraught conversation continues, before ending with Gaddafi telling Blair to 'just leave us alone', as the former Prime Minister urged him to 'keep the lines open'.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3388533/Colonel-Gaddafi-accused-Tony-Blair-supporting-Al-Qaeda-warned-jihadis-Libya-attack-Europe-series-phone-calls.html

onthepone thank you for posting that information, and I certainly don't want to spread misinformation. I have to leave the thread now but I'll try to come back later with a link to the mainstream media article that I think quoted one of the high-ranking German politicians specifying this one-year jail term rule.

fourmummy the thing is that Mumsnet does run some campaigns. The fact that there are an infinite number of worthy campaigns that could be run does not mean that none should be run at all, or Mumsnet is obliged to campaign for everything. Based on this thread and its predecessor, this particular case seems to be one about which Mumsnet users are feeling extremely strongly.

wasabi I know. I think it's the dehumanising effect. A rapist (or a potential rapist) looks at a woman and sees nothing more than a couple of holes, no matter how intelligent, educated we are, no matter how many people love us or how many children we have. But we are more than that,we are human beings.
I can't stop thinking of the Yazidi girls and women held in slavery and raped continuously until their insides rot away ,and their mothers and grandmothers murdered because they were too old to fuck or bear children. This is evil, it's a war on women and children (and other groups) and it's got to be beaten.

Peregrane I was not doubting the idea of a campaign but its content. I would like to see a more inclusive campaign, if you like, but for that we'll need some clarity on what the main issues are - no small feat.

The refugee crisis and the million refugees coming to Europe is a result of the destabilisation of Syria and Libya and Iraq etc

Gadaffi was fighting Al Qaeda and he was bombed and taken down and butchered by the Jihadis. Assad is fighting Isis and the funded Jihadis and he was nearly bombed to help take him down for the Jihadis.

We are told that it will take is a generation to defeat Isis and the DJ Jihadis in Syria, when our generals say that they could sort it out in two weeks with tanks and troops to finish the DJs off.

Gadaffi predicted what woukd happen and wondered what the hell was going on.

If we ended this Syrian 5 year war, then the refugees could go home, we would have to pay to rebuild their country which our allies helped to destroy by funding their Jihadis and everything would go back to normal. But instead we are told that it will take a generation to defeat the DJs.