9/11. Not interested in a debate here, but can we just have a quick show of hands?

[AnotherEffingOrangeRevel]

I'm just interested in how many people around here are also highly skeptical of what we have been told about 9/11.

I'm really not after a debate (it would be long, involved, probably pointless and personally I have done this elsewhere), but I just wanted to see who is around.

It has very strong ongoing relevance for current world events.

Many thanks.

Libraries, if you can't see why I (or anyone else) might be interested in a mini opinion poll, then so be it. I'm not going to try to convince you of that, either.

As for the idea that I might start this for personal validation ... well, if you've ever held a minority view you will know how funny this notion is. Frankly I expected the bashing I got. It was still interesting though.

'It's called critical thinking'

That is the main skill of the conspiracy researcher, to throw a sceptical critical view over what mainstream media says is true.

I got some interesting answers

Only because other people have bothered to invest a bit of time and effort on your thread and give considered responses, which you clearly can't be arsed to do yourself.

Right, I was interested by the "yes" and "no" answers, primarily, as it happens. That's why I asked for them.

Anyway, I'm being sucked into bickering as I always intended not to be. I'm going to retreat now. Have fun

thehypocritesoaf - So apart from the v entertaining ukip Claig, the op and the rest of the conspiracy theorists refuse to put a single argument with evidence together to explain exactly who in their eyes actually masterminded 9/11 and why - apart from - "woo, something doesn't add up, question everything, you're all sheep" etc etc.

So true.

There's never any theory in conspiracy theories. I've never read anyone who thinks that 9/11 was committed by the government, for example, to come out with an actual plausible explanation of why they did it and, more importantly, how they did it.

It's like religion - "you just have to believe it, you just know."

The only response you ever get is "Google Cantor Fitzgerald" or something similar - conspiracy theorists on MN never actually tell you what the conspiracy really was. Probably because we're all just too blind and sheeplike to understand them or something

OP, as many posters on here are saying, there's a big difference between thinking that a) we don't know the whole truth about 9/11 and the government or intelligence services have covered some of it up, and b) that all the attacks were deliberately orchestrated by the US government to start a war (picking one example)

I can't get my head around why you're so happy to ask everyone for a show of hands yet you don't seem willing to give much yourself.

Do you think a, or b?

It was Sir Cyril Smith and Sir Jimmy Savile and they told us that were big in charidee support and had friends in high places and were courted on the media and they said that no one had the faintest idea about what they were really like. The few conspiracy researchers who told it like it is before the truth was finally revealed were mocked by the mainstream as "theorists" and "nutters" and were told to apologise. But they turned out to be right and the great and the good said they had got it wrong.

So basically yes, you wanted to see how many people agreed with you

It's entirely possible to be a critical thinker and not to take stuff at face value, while still not having any truck with tinfoil-hatted conspiracy theories (whether inspired by Miss Marples, Hercules Poirots, Inspectors Morses or any other puzzlingly-pluralised fictional detectives).

The complete lack of any evidence - and the total collapse of the case for them under any reasonably applied critical thinking - is why I don't believe in leprechauns, fairies, Indigo Children, homeopathy and all the rest. And it's also, I'm afraid, why I don't believe in wacko conspiracy theories.

Occam's Razor - sometimes the simplest, most obvious explanation is the real one. What's more likely - a network of conspiracy going all the way to the heart of the US Government, requiring the buying (or forcing) of the silence of hundreds of people (hello, Chris Carter), or the Twin Towers being blown up because the terrorists who did it were a bunch of deranged, monomaniac, sociopathic religious lunatics with no regard for human life?

The latter explanation may not be very nice, but it is by far the more likely one.

Well a lot of people had to keep quiet about what the Guardian reported.

"Millions were in germ war tests

Much of Britain was exposed to bacteria sprayed in secret trials

The Ministry of Defence turned large parts of the country into a giant laboratory to conduct a series of secret germ warfare tests on the public.
A government report just released provides for the first time a comprehensive official history of Britain's biological weapons trials between 1940 and 1979.

Many of these tests involved releasing potentially dangerous chemicals and micro-organisms over vast swaths of the population without the public being told."

www.theguardian.com/politics/2002/apr/21/uk.medicalscience

There have been 300 mass shootings in the US so far this year alone.

Those 'crisis actors' must be pretty damn busy.

'Those 'crisis actors' must be pretty damn busy.'

According to some conspiracy researchers and amateur Miss Marple types on youtube, some of the same "crisis actors" appear in different "crises".

The conspiracy theorist doesn't throw a skeptical critical view over what they see/read. They fill in the gaps with ideas and speculation based on coincidence and their own paranoias.

thurlow

I suggested the OP googled Cantor Fitzgerlad because she accused me of being a 'feel good hoaxer' when I said exH was on the phone to people before they died in the tower collapse! She said it was bullshit because they would have run away.
A simple Google would show they were trapped above the impact site and couldn't get out. A simple Google would show that 600 'elite bankers' died and nearly brought the company to its knees because so few were left to run the company afterwards. (Not the desired effect if this was organised by the 'elite bankers')
A simple Google would also explain the technology of a dealer board which allowed them to keep talking to their London office when others couldn't make calls using normal phones.
It would also show how every single year since, the company has used the anniversary to raise millions and millions for charities and the families of the victims by giving away chunks of company profit. Again, not really the actions of these shady elite bankers.

Instead, Afew tried to suggest I have made the whole thing up.

According to some conspiracy researchers, the same "crisis actor" appears in different locations across the country - down South, up North and inbetween.

'They fill in the gaps with ideas and speculation based on coincidence and their own paranoias.'

Conspiracy research has nothing to do with "dodgy dossiers", it has to do with Miss Marple like scrutiny.

For me, critical thinking doesn't mean imagining some evil shadowy force behind events that are hard to comprehend, and looking for opinions or disputable claims to back that up. It means dispassionately looking at facts and importantly recognizing where there isn't enough information to draw any meaningful conclusions.

and the reason Miss Marple's scrutiny always pans out so well is because it's fiction.

Oh, hang on, I see a parallel with the 'Miss Marples' explanations on YouTube.

Claig I was to squeeze your little cheeks for think that Miss Marple is the pinnacle of investigation best practice.

Just out of interest, what are your thoughts on RastaMouse? He also always solves the crimes by following the crumbs of clues left behind by criminals...

'and the reason Miss Marple's scrutiny always pans out so well is because it's fiction'

Yes, but quite often the "official" Establishment story is fiction - like the "official" Establishment story over charidee do-gooder Sir Jimmy Savile. It is the skill of the conspiracy researcher to unravel the fiction and reveal the truth against the mainstream attempts at denigration and denial.

I prefer Dangermouse - there's a good conspiracy every episode.

'what are your thoughts on RastaMouse? He also always solves the crimes by following the crumbs of clues left behind by criminals...'

I haven't watched him but from your description he sounds like he could have done a better job on Sir Jimmy Savile and Sir Cyril Smith than the great and the good managed.

OK so I bit - I googled crisis actors. How do you know the photos are actually from the places these people report they are from?

I would also add it's not difficult to find people who look remarkably similar and pass it off as the same person.

As with everything on this thread, if you can't believe everything you read why should we believe this? It's all hear-say and second hand 'evidence'.

The crisis actor thing is actually really sinister and disturbing, because the last time this came up on a thread, I follow a link, and it was basically saying that one of the victims (might have been the Boston bombing) was actually still alive and living under a different identity. That's horrifying.

If you were a family member, and you know that sort of crap is on the internet - well, what would it do to you?

You also have people poring over, and commenting on photos of bodies - and writing about it - with no compassion that this was a person, a victim of a horrific attack - just feeding their own warped conspiracy theories.

Don't forget though Under, that all the family members are meant to be actors too. So it's ok not to care about them because they're not real either.

God, it's sociopathic isn't it?

Just a complete disconnect from real life.