EU referendum - in or out?

[juneau]

I used to be completely pro-Europe, but I'm now leaning firmly towards 'out' and the national mood seems to have switched that way too. So how would you vote?

[QueenLaBeefah]

In but would like to see massive reform. It is extremely corrupt and wastes billions.

[squidzin]

Juneu, OP, did one thing specifically changed your mind or was it gradual?
I have been In-Out-In... But the more I find out the more I realise what a pro-corporate capitalism wet dream gone wrong it is. Especially now with this TTIP, the Greece ptoblem, and Cameron now negotioating to further assault workers rights further with this British Bill of Rights. With no protection, what's the point of being IN at all?

We're ending up with all the disadvantage (floodgate immigration) and none if the advantages (maternity leave etc).

So I might be thinking OUT again soon.

[juneau]

Its lots of things squids, but the more I read about the positives of leaving the EU, more I think Britain should do it. Just because we leave doesn't mean we can't negotiate new positive relationships with our EU neighbours, and we will have more freedom to negotiate trade deals with nations outside the EU on our own terms. We don't want to be part of ever greater fiscal union, and I completely disagree with the way un-elected bureaucrats in Brussels get to override the laws of our country, plus the hideous waste of money that EU bureaucracy demands.

I also hate that we have such minimal control of our borders and I'm extremely concerned about the population predictions for this nation. Living in the crowded south-east I can really see the results of the massive influx of people since the mid-90s. Gridlock on the roads, pressures on housing, schools and the NHS. Yes this is a wealthy country, but we cannot keep on growing by 300,000 people a year. Our way of life is under threat and our institutions are at breaking point, yet as members of the EU we have no way to restrict how many people move here each year, because whoever shows up from the EU has a right to settle here and demand housing, healthcare, education, etc. Its just not sustainable and we simply cannot keep taking all-comers. If our population was in decline I would feel differently, but we are in a very different situation population-wise than any of our European neighbours.

[ThroughThickAndThin01]

i agree about the population increase OP. All of MN seems to say we have plenty of space, plenty of wealth, only 6% of the country is built on etc etc, let everyone who wants to come in to the country. Then the next wave of threads, is about not getting school places, slow or non existant NHS treatment, council housing. There is a strain on resources, and IMO this won't get any better whoever is in government. I live in the south east too and it feels really over populated. I've told all my dc to move away as adults, it's only going to get more crowded and more stressful. I don't know what the answer is, but border control worries me. Amongst other things in the EU.

Are you keeping a tally of votes here OP?

[Verypissedoffwife]

Out
I probably would have voted 'in" a year ago

[WidowWadman]

People going on about "unelected bureaucrats on Brussels" - what's the difference to unelected bureaucrats in Whitehall?

[WidowWadman]

The guff about that you can just rock up from anywhere in the EU and demand housing is complete bunkum by the way. You can't. You never could, and nowadays EU citizens face being made to leave after 6 months of unemployment (no matter if they've been paying in for 10 weeks, 10 months or 10 years). Any time you've not been employed or can prove self-sufficiency (e.g. through full health insurance) does not count towards the time of residence needed for citizenship.
You're being fed a lot of lies about EU migration.

[claig]

'People going on about "unelected bureaucrats on Brussels" - what's the difference to unelected bureaucrats in Whitehall?'

Because our unelected Whitehall bureaucrats are servants who implement policy decided by our democratically elected publicly accountable politicians.

[juneau]

widow Net migration from the EU last year was 142,000 people. Are you honestly saying that all those people had no impact on the already critical situation with housing in this country? What about all the extra cars on the roads? All those extra children needing school places? All those extra people demanding healthcare services? Of course they're having an impact.

[ThroughThickAndThin01]

UK birth rate is much higher than the death rate, our population is growing internally hugely year on year anyway.

[gingerdad]

In and in shengam. I do see so much bollocks about immigration being out of control. The eu's not perfect and could do with reform.

I wonder how many global companies that use the U.K. As a route into europe will be gone - Honda, Nissan, Toyota, ford, GM.

I know we see ourselves as a special case which we clearly aren't

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

In. Out current Westminster government is frankly pretty terrifying, and when in the EU they are forced to at least play lip service to concepts like human rights.

[lunar1]

Out, there would have to be massive changes for me to say in but my opinion has changed over the last few years.

[Indole]

Definitely in.

[VulcanWoman]

Out, I don't know what they're pissing about at, get the vote done with. I have faith in our Country going it alone, we will be just fine. Never done Switzerland any harm, they're not in any 'club'.

[reckitwralph]

out

[AnnaForbes]

Out, 100%.

[squidzin]

Fallout of OUT will be bedlam.

[GobbolinoCat]

follow my heart and have a stab at a relationship with someone living in a different country and build my life there without worries about the logistics/visas etc* plenty still manage to find and keep love with vias and logisitcs!

OUT.

[GobbolinoCat]

You can't. You never could which is why legislation had to be brought in to make it more fair to UK citizens .

[WidowWadman]

Gobbolino at the time neither me nor my husband would have been in the position to afford this - not sure if you're aware of the absurd family destroying minimum earnings rules for non EEA spousal visas which pretty much force British citizens to either live apart from their spouse/children or go into exile?

[HugoBear]

In.

There's no credible economic case for 'out', which is why UKIP etc rattle on about immigrants all the time.

[squidzin]

no credible economic case
Er, how about saving £20bn a year in membership fee.
Plus, how about saving our nhs.

[HugoBear]

Claig:

our unelected Whitehall bureaucrats are servants who implement policy decided by our democratically elected publicly accountable politicians.

Brussels bureaucrats are also servants who implement policy decided by our democratically elected public ally accountable politicians.

The Commission is the equivalent of the Civil Service, and they don't pass law. It's national ELECTED governments (serving as the Council of Ministers) that make a proposal into a law.

[Limer]

OUT